Score editor FR (can this be done with Logical Editor?)

Writing contrapuntal music would be very convenient if I could select a motive and have Cubase show me its permutations, such as retrograde (motive flipped horizontally), inversion (motive flipped vertically) and retrograde-inversion (motive flipped both horizontally and vertically). It would be much more elegant than writing it out on paper and then turning it upside down in order to read it backwards to see which permutations work best. Lazy me :blush:

Yeah! +1

also, previously:

http://www.steinberg.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2588&hilit=retrograde

Not beyond the bounds. It used to have a phrase manipulator on the Atari and early Cubase VST. Forget the name of it though. Quite complex. A study of the Logical Editor may suit though it may take you more time to get used to. Some users may have tips and tricks you can download.
I’d do another thread maybe asking for Logical Editor examples of what you need or just change the title of this thread. It’s surprising what’s around in here when the right question is asked. Some may make you what you want or give clear instructions for you to make your own presets.

el-russo you are truly lazy. Wow! So lazy to not want to turn a piece of paper upside down. I, however am even more lazy. I refuse to write the phrase out at all. :wink:

Conman, you are referring to the Interactive Phrase Synthesizer, which was the funnest toy I ever had. I spent many, many hours, it seems, playing with that. You could apply an oscillator to any parameter that Cubase had in it, e.g., a sine wave that caused mode changes over time, alter density of notes, range of tessiture, it just went on and on. A saw or square wave to control program change, or whatever. It was the purest unfettered Steinbergian effort ever, Maybe even worth keeping an old machine around to run it.

It was removed from Cubase and brought out as a separate program which was only a faint shadow of what it replaced.

But back on topic, the IPS had nought to do with the missing feature that el-russo requests. He (and I as well) just want the plain, boring tools of old, dusty composers in Cubase. Sibelius and Finale and Digital Performer have them in some form, it would be great to see here. Maybe you can give a shot to finding a way to do some of it in logical edit. Let us know what you find!

I am glad you are also interested in this feature, SteveInChicago, and thanks for your advice, Conman. Indeed, does anyone care to share Logical Editor secrets in regards to this? I have so far avoided learning to use this plugin as its “machine” -like commands sound off-putting to me, but I guess it’s time to dive right in. If it can allow me to simply select some notes in the score and see what the motive is worth by clicking a button, I’m ready to learn programming it. Any Logical Editor experts around to enlighten us?

Thanks. Bugging me that. I haven’t read the manual on the Logical editor for years and probably glazed over after a while and didn’t take it all in because it was weak on my “handy tools” finder radar at the time. All I know is it’s the most likely thing to help out here.

Though you will find presets to play with. I’m sure at least one is labelled “reverse (notes?)” and if I’m right at least one of your dreams is likely to happen.

Sorry, just looked. Hm. But under the Midi menu scroll down to Functions and you will find “Reverse”.

One. :smiley:

Conman, the discussion on the reverse function is what already I linked to in my first reply to the OP, but thanks anyway.

The function “Reverse” works horribly for MIDI notes. (there were lengthy discussions about it, I think it was in the old forum)… it certainly doesn’t reverse the phrase (or even the note lengths) in any way that could be described as useful. But Steinberg insisted it was, technically, correct.
Doing it via the Logical Editor produces the same disastrous result.
Searching on the Web a bit, it would seem that maybe Reaper can do it.
Otherwise, the only thing I can think of (but it would only work for monophonic lines) would be to get the MIDI to play a simple sustained synth sound, record it into audio, reverse the audio, then try your luck with some audio>MIDI utility.

In a limited way the reverse function can be useful to create a retrograde phrase - if you quantize the lengths of all the notes to the smallest one in the set first, you end up with what is needed, then you have to manually put the rhythms back the way you need them.

Yep, I suppose that isn’t too painful :slight_smile:

but still painful! :laughing:

“…get the MIDI to play a simple sustained synth sound, record it into audio, reverse the audio, then try your luck with some audio>MIDI utility.”


…and then wonder what was it you were trying to do in the first place :smiley:. Thanks for the reference, vic. I guess writing the motive on paper remains the easiest way to evaluate it, unless Steinberg implements something elegant and quick.

On this site Matlab facilities are available to generate note sequences, or rephrase 'm and do simple (contrapunctal) or complex shuffeling; one can generate complete compositions with it.

https://www.jyu.fi/hum/laitokset/musiikki/en/research/coe/materials/miditoolbox/

Gerard

Nice one. I suppose that “Finish’s” it, eh? :stuck_out_tongue:

I posted this in the C7 F.R. forum…