Scratch pad

A true ‘Scratch Pad’ has NOTHING to do with any existing Cubase feature; not Track Versions or Markers or -nothing-.

It consists of 3 major features:

  1. A a way to INSTANTLY record a new skeleton of an idea using some pre-defined ‘Scratch Pad Template’ regardless of what one is currently working on.

  2. The ability to then immediately save JUST THAT IDEA somewhere completely different as a CPR for later use.

  3. Then instantly return back to one’s undisturbed CPR (without having to wait for tedious ‘reloading’).

The fastest way SB could implement -anything- like this would be to implement a ‘Save Range As CPR’ function…

  1. You’d record onto an existing CPR at the end (as we all do)
  2. You’d use the Range tool to select that area
  3. You’d hit the button and JUST THOSE TRACKS over JUST THOSE BARS would be saved as an independent CPR to a new folder
  4. You’d then delete that range and go back to work.

I use the Arranger Track for similar purpose.
The difference is that idea sketches are in the same timeline.

It’s usable, but a bit of a workaround. Wouldn’t it be nice if with one click in the arranger track you could select/copy everything beneath, then drag it around, for example in a dedicated zone on the right (hint, hint :wink: :laughing: ) ?

That ‘difference’ is the whole point. A Scratchpad isn’t a Scratchpad UNLESS it allows one to instantly save one’s work to a NEW CPR and then instantly return to the current project.

I like this more than track versions. I would use scratch pad. I do not use track versions.

I agree.
I use the Folder that contains all, or Copy & Paste with some macros, but these are not perfect.
In this regard, S1’s way is handy. I hope some improvement in Cubase.

And it would be nice if Cubase had multiple views of one project (another window or split vertically),
multiple timelines in one project, and multiple projects with easy handling.
However, I think these implementations require careful consideration.

On the other hand, Cubase’s Arranger Track has multiple arranger chains. It’s very useful.
I can compare various versions quickly.
“Flatten the arranger chain in a new project” is also useful.
Idea sketches can be exported with this option.

The Arranger really was made for song sections. It gets very unwieldy when you have too many Arranger parts.

Peanut Gallery:

Full Disclosure. I am an S1 user and previous Cubase user, still own 5.5, and have no agenda here. I think Cubase 8 is a great product actually, from what I’ve seen of it. But there is the typical bad info being thrown about here which always makes the good info a bit more fuzzy.

  • First and foremost, Cubase has directly copied Studio One before, it’s Automation Transformer (Automation Scaler?), so the previous comments to the contrary are just obviously wishful thinking. Of course S1 has also copied Cubase in some obvious ways. The idea that daws don’t or shouldn’t copy some good ideas from each other is… for lack of a better phrase… pretty silly. That actually wasn’t the only thing, but I digress.

  • Secondly, track layers and the scratch pad are two completely different things. Studio One has had track layers (what Cubase calls “track versions” and what PT calls “playlists”) since v1 2009, and could always do that. One thing has nothing at all to do with the other. Having both only means you have even more options since all the layers go to the scratch pad also?

  • Lastly, if you’re going to copy something (as a developer) you - should - try make it better or not even bother since the thing you’re copying is usually some years old already? Did Cubase improve on S1’s track layers or PT’s playlists with “track versions”? No idea, I don’t use Cubase 8. They - should - have and I would expect them to. S1 certainly improved on Cubase’s track folders which is an almost identical rip. So if you have to tell a developer to do that, “add special sauce” to something being ripped, he’s not very bright. :slight_smile:

Anyway, I don’t personally view the scratch pad as a “game changer”, but it’s quite handy, especially since it also takes all of the auomtation and layers and takes and everything else with it.

Hope that helps the discussion. The partisanship involved with many daw owners doesn’t often help with objectivity, it almost always turns into a contest of some kind where maybe the small or singular thing under discussion gets lost in the noise.

+1 for scratch pad, love cubase, but scratch pad is a game changer for productivity, it has nothing to do with track versions, or the arranger track as others have pointed out, you can do complete remixes, try different plugs, arrangements with different mixes without leaving. Your current session, DP chunks does a very similar thing, but not nearly as easy to use, I also own and use DP so, if your are scoring to picture this is a very great feature to have.Cubase would benefit greatly with this feature, or something similar and easy to use. I just started using Cubase and really love the program, but they can certainly make it more intuitive.

  1. As I always say, there are 2 kinds of Cubase users: Engineers and Artists. And the Engineers don’t have a -clue- as to why this would be a total ‘game changer’. If you think an Arranger Chain or a Track Version is as good as a real Scratch Pad? You don’t understand the concept. It’s like people poo-pooing microwave ovens or debit cards (Who needs -that-?)

  2. Whoever said, ‘Cubase shouldn’t copy program x’ is… (edited for politeness). If anything, Cubendo has been doing little else besides trying to ‘copy’ PT for the past few years in order to attain parity for the Engineer types. Which is -fine-. You should be -thankful- Cubase copies things. And frankly? Not all of SBs ideas are exactly design winners. They -often- re-invent the wheel just to be different and this leads to not very user-friendly features. If someone else has worked out a best practice way to do something? COPY AWAY!

Scratch Pad would be the single biggest time-saver (for me) since… I don’t know when.

Agreed. The engineers are the ones who fully understand the so-called “Logical Editor.” I can use it mainly by altering presets. Without the presets, I would be mostly lost. I imagine many people stay away from it out of fear.

I agree with the cut of your jib, sun.

I’m speaking as a moderator: you edited out the words ‘a moron’ but I had already read the post. Also, you seem to say that a person can’t be both engineer and artist. Maybe you’re exaggerating to make a point, but that wouldn’t be a true statement. (Also, insulting to engineers.) Snarky posts like that amount to trolling, whether the insult is explicit or implicit. You can certainly express yourself and still be respectful to the diverse crowd that reads this forum.

Back on topic, no question that S1 has a nice feature in this, but imo you exaggerate the difficulty of the Cubase ‘method’. In Cubase you go to the end of the project, write your idea, do all your automation and whatever you please, select it all (object or range) and copy.

Then:
New Empty project (don’t activate)
Paste

Automation, Midi, Instrument, Audio, Video tracks are copied, including each of the tracks’ Time Base mode.

If you use a template containing tempo and time sig track types those events will be pasted too. (Tempo and sig tracks must appear in the same order in both projects.)

No generalisation is 100%. But… in -most- situations the one I put forward works. And in this case, if you don’t see why all those work-arounds aren’t even in the same -county- as a Scratchpad? Well… (edited for politeness) :smiley:

The showstopper in Cubase is… YOU CAN’T HAVE TWO ACTIVE CPRS. Full stop. It’s a HUGE limitation that conditions my entire workday. Every day.

A Scratchpad (to -me-) means:

I can stop what I’m doing and INSTANTLY bring up a second ‘scratch pad’ to sing, play piano/guitar, get the idea down and save it somewhere else. And then instantly return to what I was working on.

With Cubase? You have to ‘Activate’ the new CPR… which basically takes the length of time to unload the old CPR and then re-load a new template of some kind. And for anyone who works on large CPRs, that’s 3-5 MINUTES. And then after I’ve gotten my idea down? Another 3-5 minutes to re-load the old CPR.

This 10 minute break in ‘flow’ is the showstopper and there is no workaround. Presonus has found an elegant solution which I find compelling. It may not be ‘perfect’ but for someone like me… who gets ideas all the time at inconvenient moments… it’s pretty fabulous.

As I previously wrote, the simplest solution Cubase could offer would be a ‘Backup Range To New CPR’ function.



Except that you do not have activate the new cpr. Just close it, save it, and go back to work.

I’ll end my involvement in this with one word: ZUNE.

Whenever I see the word ‘workaround’ in Cubase WRT ‘features/suggestions’ I think ‘Zune’. Like many MP3 players it did 100 more things than an iPod, but the reason it’s now a punchline is that the ONE thing iPod did, it did silky smooth. Certain functions need to be silky smooth; if you implement them so that they require macros or multiple steps, they are almost useless because they take the user out of ‘the flow’… Apple figured out that music listeners cannot STAND to be taken out of their listening ‘flow’ to change songs so they made it a one button (and now a Siri) affair.

A ScratchPad is a creative -flow- idea. It has to be implemented in a one-button, totally self-evident , silky smooth fashion that keeps one in the creative flow. And THAT is where the Engineers don’t get it. I don’t want to lose 1 minute, hell not 10 -seconds- going out of creative mode when I get an idea. The Engineers don’t get why this matters so much and frankly, this is why Cubase has never been able to capture that market, despite numerous attempts. They don’t -get- why a Scratchpad matters so much to people like me. It’s a complete marketing blind spot.

I always read a bunch of daw forums when something major releases because it’s really entertaining. I did the same thing when I used Cubase, would read other forums to see how soon people were asking for something it just added, just out of curiosity. It was typically right away, like day one.

We boys do love our toys. :slight_smile:

I fully expected to see the scratch pad FR here, no surprise there, but I was a little surprised that the new plugin routing didn’t also hit the FR board yet.

I take yer point, but in this case, I think that’s a bit cynical.

Rather, I’d say that this is a chronic malady that has gone on for me for 15 years. Most of the time I ignore it. But when another vendor addresses it, it reminds me of just how annoying it is to be without.

As Dr. Smith used to say.

The pain. Oh, the pain.



But it did :

Shameless bump for an interesting and usefull feature (imo) ! :mrgreen: