Session View or Clip Launcher in Cubase like Bitwig/Ableton

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I’ m new in this forum…I 've been checking it around for the last few weeks and I have already spotted the ambient destroyers wanting to impose their opinion and feature list to other users…Poor Steinberg having to deal with these people…

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There seems to be a handful of self-elected gatekeepers here who think that if they engage their caps lock key and SHOUT down everyone that somehow Steinberg will listen to their hysteria. Fortunately, Steinberg has their own roadmap and, it seems clear, they will introduce these kinds of features if user demand is there. And it is there.

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What are “ambient destroyers”?

FYI, just because someone advocates passionately for a certain vision for Cubase does not mean that person is imposing his or her will on anyone. People just need to grow up and not throw a tantrum if their position is challenged.

The one is you and the other Tim. You are both shouting too much. The guy came here wishing for a future request and all you do both is keep repeating yourself clearly diminishing the needs of other users. You really think you 're alone here? Grow up man. Let people ask what they want. Express your contradictions in a respectful way, make clear statements supporting your opinion why you don’t agree with it and end.

Being judgemental and openly disrespectful to others with statements like “Let the DJs and non-musicians use Ableton or Bitwig (this coming from someone who composes a lot of EDM).” makes you needing to grow up dude. How old are you 14? Why all these complexes? If you 're not happy with Cubase, go for DAW chasing or even better for everyone, go and program your own DAW and let the rest in peace.

Well said. People like this are best ignored as it’s non-constructive. :+1:

So moving on, how would you like to see clip launching implemented? I quite like the split view that other DAW’s have implemented where you have the clips on the left and you can drag or record into the timeline. Would be my choice.

Or would you prefer to see an all out session view style display?

Or do you prefer the plugin route, perhaps? (Not a fan myself).

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I really like the idea of it being a separate page on the left, wouldn’t be an issue being on the right though, kinda like the sketch pad in Studio One on the right vs being on the left like Bitwig.

The plugin idea could work, but I’d prefer if it was done like above. The new midi api they’re working on could allow for both implementations to work with a controller too :raised_hands:

Didn’t think of it being like that, So you’d have the clips in a sketchpad style view, and then drag them into the timeline?

I would like being able to record the performance of a session directly into the timeline to form the basis of a linear timeline which I could further tweak later, so it would need to offer that feature for me.

Is that what you had in mind?

I like the idea of looping uneven lengths, i.e. a 3 bar hi-hat pattern against a 4 bar kick and snare, and delving into polyrhythms with a clip launch feature.

Anyone seen Mixcraft’s implementation of this type of workflow.? They call it their ‘Performance Panel’. This would be my idea of a Session View/Clip Launcher type tool, inside Cubase. I’ve worked with it and it is quick and fun; I haven’t turned to it on a lot of projects, but for sketching and getting some inspiration going, it was a good (novel for me) workflow…

The vid explains it all pretty well;

It does rely on a solution being found, for a ‘gapless’ audio engine mind…

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Yes, exactly as you described, just over on the right like in Studio One, that could work for me.

Yeah looping different parts of different loops is where the accidents that spark a whole idea come from. I tend to use Maschine to emulate this workflow, but it’s just not quite as easy and flexible as Ableton/bitwig, super fun with the controller though.

Bitwig has no rewire support so you can’t sync it to cubase to get the amazing mixing and audio features it offers. The browser in Ableton, when you’re used to mediabay, omg :poop: :joy:
I expect top see everything inside a folder if I click on the mother folder :weary:
Click, click, click, gotta take my hat off to people using Ableton and nothing else.

Anyway, the new midi api in cubase should hopefully allow for 3rd party devs to write controller scripts to improvise and record jams into the timeline like you said, how cool would this be :raised_hands:

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Yeah I tried this one before, pretty cool but i found it very difficult to loop sections within a loop like skijumptoes said above. Other than that yes I agree, would work great in cubase but you’re spot on about the audio engine, that’s a hurdle isn’t it.

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I tried Maschine and had it integrated quite well with Cubase. Trouble is, It was great for building beats and triggers - but for clip launching it felt like you needed a second controller (Jam?) to have enough pads to make it flexible enough.

I’d rather not buy hardware that’s so specialised for a single piece of software really, which gets us on to:-

100% super hyped for this. When it was dropped from C11 last year, I’ve been seeing what Studio One and REAPER offer in those areas, and using those DAW’s without any kind of clip launching facility, you can still get pad controllers (Like Push, Novation Launch products etc.) to operate like drum sequencers and provide screen and pad light feedback to external devices.

i.e. the pads will light up 1/16th notes and show which notes exist in the selected piano roll, to build beats on the fly.

I just don’t know if the Cubase MIDI API be that flexible. As it’s an API, it should offer some deep control, but it all depends what they expose from the DAW to the API. If it’s not elements like piano roll data, then it’s already at a disadvantage to what else is out there.

If they do expose this data then there’s a chance someone could create a basic clip launch style script.

Must admit, I expect it just to be an advancement on the current generic remote device functions. But I’m hoping it’s a true API that allows you to dive deep, as I’ll be diving straight in.

Yeah having the jam makes a huge difference, they’re quite cheap used as mine was purchased used, check ebay out. Really only works well with a MK3/studio controller with the big screens though, no need to look at the computer screen this way. Little tip, use one entire group for one loop on one pad in the maschine software, then you can m mix and match loops at different loop points much more easily, like bitwig/ableton. Again it’s not as flexible, but close.

Hey as far as controllers go, did you know the ableton push works over rewire now? So if you rewire Ableton 10 to cubase you can have the push running as it was designed. Then you can use a midi app like loop midi to re-route midi back from ableton into cubase. Then you can sequence in ableton off the push and record the midi in cubase. It’s a bit messy, but it works with almost perfect sync with auto quantise set in cubase. Audio is in perfect sync as normal with rewire, just the midi in this setting is ever so slightly off, but cubase auto quantise sorts that. I just use maschine with the MK3 and Jam as it’s easier and less routing bs. But maybe this info will inspire someone until hopefully one day, we get this clip launching/session view feature integrated directly into cubase.

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I guess you tried the slice and ‘remix’ (grab a loop from within a loop) workflow, by placing slices in other slots… Not quite the same thing I imagine, but hey ho…
Using Mixcraft 8’s Performance Panel to cut up and remix a loop from freesound.org - YouTube
Hmm… I’m not properly understanding what you’re after, am I…?! :wink:

Love all the controller talk by the way guys… (sending Santa a Xmas wish.!)

I mean in ableton/bitwig it’s as simple as drag the start and end points to create a loop in a different time signature. The start and end points snap to the grid so no matter what random time signature you choose for each individual loop, everything is in sync allowing for accidents galore, where the magic comes from. The you can in both ableton and bitwig, drag the entire new looping section backwards and forwards looping different parts of the loop at different parts of the sample to come up with even more random combos between sounds, hope that makes sense?
In mixcraft I couldn’t do that, also I couldn’t see how to edit or automate pitch within the looping audio on it’s session view type feature. Also, I’d go nuts within a few hours without a right click pop up bar after all of these years with cubase :joy:

Mixcraft is definitely a program to keep an eye on though :+1:

You.

You trolled when you made that comment because you knew it was offensive and that someone would react to it.

That’s literally what trolling is.

You offend people and then ask them why they are “butt hurt” (inferred rhetorically), which is just more trolling.

You know why. You wrote it, and you’re repeating it simply to perpetuate your filth in this thread.

Just stop it.

And your wrong. They are musicians. Most DJs are producers, as well, anyways. Lots of film scores call for electronic music which can benefit from tooling that is absent or on life support in Cubase.

Other DAWs are getting really good at the other stuff. 2 years ago Cubase was the only DAW with an A+ Expression Maps system.

Now, it’s a B- system, because at least 3 other DAWs have outdone it with their own Articulation Maps systems one after another in a pretty short span of time.

Taking DP for an example… Better Articulation Maps, Bettee Notation, Clip Launcher, Better Sampler, Better Drum Editor…

I mean, Hans Zimmer’s name can only go so far. Sooner or later they’re going to have to develop out in other ways, because competitors are closing in faster within Cubase’s stronger niches than Steinberg can patch the holes in the areas where it lacks.

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It’s weekend…
I would be happy with something simple like this already. A new section at the inspector allows to hold clips. Just drag a part/event to a cell to get it looped from the part/event start to end. You can adjust the part boundaries in the editor. While a clip is looping the parts/events on that track get disabled, indicated by the gray color.
This new section is available for audio, midi and instrument tracks.
The new controller API allows to start/stop the clips. For more fun you can change the color of each clip. This is also sent to the controller to illuminate the pads accordingly.
Advanced: record the free style jam with the clips to record-enabled tracks.
For most fun, the clips are available as a Mixer Rack.
I would so much love this kind of workflow. If you don’t need it, hide the clips section.


For simplicity all clips are the same in this example…

It’s definitely a feature I’d love to see.
I really loved the flow of inspiration when I was using Bitwig Studio to write some music. I used clips (session) view as my “sketchbook” - a place to improvise and freely create some ideas. Of course then I was moving good ideas to the arranger view.

That’s something I missing in Cubase and sometimes I’m thinking about a hybrid workflow of making a track skeleton in Bitwig Studio using its Clip launcher and super powerful LFO/modulation stuff and transferring stems to Cubase and use its advanced mixing capabilities and great MIDI and audio editing features to continue and finish the work.

But of course in our time where we get used to DaVinci Resolve’s workflow for video post production where we have most steps of the entire pipeline covered in one single application conveniently separated into steps as pages, integrating the pipeline is a good move forward.

Of course while keeping all the amazing stuff and workflow that we already have in Cubase.

P.S. I didn’t even mention that recording the initial arrangement out of live session performance from the start gives good feeling of entire track in time. You’re actually performing and at the same time listening to performance that is giving you a good feeling of vibe of an arrangement which is not always can be achieved by dragging and dropping type of workflow.

Resolve is a bad example, as the performance of anything that isn’t the color page is throttled down by the an engine that is tuned for finishing.

Massive GPU Processing and VRAM Requirements, pathetic OpenFX performance unless the developer has meticulously designed the plug-in for Resolve, etc.

I would also mention that despite all the FUD about Premiere Pro’s stability issues, Resolve has consistently been one of the buggiest pieces of software in that market segment. v14 Fairlight was almost unusable while v15 still had lots of bugs, and the Fusion Page has only become nominally usable - though the performance is still terrible compared to Fusion stand-alone. Lots of people still use it only for Color, and the joke even on the Resolve forums was to “Never touch your audio in Resolve,” due to how buggy Fairlight-in-Resolve was.

I own/use Resolve Studio since v14.


If I were using Bitwig or Ableton for Production (or even something like Maschine 2 or an MPC), I would not buy Cubase for Audio Editing and Mixing. I would buy Pro Tools, as the standard SKU works fine for this at a comparable price to Cubase Pro. I think Ableton and Bitwig are good enough with MIDI from the perspective of producing modern genres of music. That is not a reason to go with Cubase over Pro Tools.

Pro Tools’ audio engine is as close to perfect as exists on the planet. There is no reason to pick Cubase over Pro Tools for Audio Editing and Mixing. Just putting a fade at the end of an Audio Clip will render perfectly in Pro Tools, while Cubase and Logic (for example) will have anomalies. Stuff like this matter, when you’re editing audio, crossfading clips, etc. Cubase and Logic [incorrectly] add tails to the audio that Pro Tools [correctly] does not.

There is a reason why Pro Tools still dominates the Audio and Post Production markets. Objectively, it’s a superior solution.

Cubase is a General Purpose DAW with a [fairly heavy] bias to composition. I’d pick Cubase if I wanted to do everything in one DAW. It’s comparable to something like Logic or Digital Performer, and this is why those DAWs have added Clip-based workflows - so that their users don’t have to consider juggling DAWs to produce one project (though I’d still Mix in Pro Tools if I were using Logic, for the reasons given above). Also, it’s a competitive advantage against DAWs like Cubase.

I gave Pro Tools a try but every time something went wrong. And every time I felt like I’m playing with something from early 80s. Especially under Windows OS.
When I first updated my old Cubase LE version that came with my old audio interface (or maybe with field recorder) it was like a portion of fresh air after that cumbersome applications. Just fell in love.

It’s totally subjective but right after reading your post I decided to look what’s new on Avid’s side of the field and even browsing their website resulted in mild headache.

I appreciate that huge attribution to the world of all kinds of digital production that Avid made. But perhaps it’s just not for me at least at this time. The one thing I sometimes use is Avid DNxHD codec for intermediate/proxy material (in fact I was using on Linux and Windows with Lightworks and DaVinci Resolve before switching to Mac).

I’m not a pro, I don’t even dream to be an audio professional or sound engineer - like the whole life it’s just my hobby. So I’m not really disappointed that Cubase fades out or in incorrectly something there. I never noticed that.

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