Session View or Clip Launcher in Cubase like Bitwig/Ableton

Oh, no. Unfortunately, music never comes to me! I may spend hours coming up with the chord progressions for a song. But as part of that process, the overall song arrangement almost works itself out on its own. For instance, if I have the chord progression for the verse, the pre-chorus, the chorus, the bridge and the breakdown, then it’s pretty trivial to assemble those different progressions into a song structure.

Of course, I don’t always use that many different chord progressions in a single song. Sometimes it’s just a verse and a chorus and occasionally, though very rarely, even a single progression (which for different sections of the song I will include completely different parts and sounds). But even then I’ve got a pretty good idea of how I am going to arrange the overall song once I have even the verse and chorus chord progressions (and their different song section “arrangements” in terms of parts and sounds).

Now what I find fascinating is people who don’t think in terms of chords. It’s all melodies (and for guitar-based bands, riffs). But even Vince Clarke (another Depeche Mode alum) worked out all of his songs in Depeche Mode and Yazoo and currently in Erasure by playing chords on either an acoustic guitar or piano even though there might not be an actual chord - i.e., multiple notes from the same instrument played together - on any of those albums. In fact, I don’t think there is a single chord on the first Depeche Mode record, Speak & Spell. Although I love that sort of production, that’s not how I roll. I love my stereo double-tracked acoustic guitar strumming parts (now if I could only really play the guitar convincingly - thank god for the audiowarp and audio quantize features in Cubase,) piano and synth comping parts (which I can indeed play convincingly by perhaps applying a little percentage quantize to tighten things up slightly,) and underlying pads. All the monophonic lead lines and various sound design textures are just ear candy. :wink:

Great album agreed. Do you think using mono synths was also a big factor, though? I’ve never really seen interviews or learnt about their creative process, just presumed it was due to constraints on those early albums.

Maybe I need to seek some info out, as this concept of dropping chords, or constructing them across single notes on different instruments is very inspiring to think about. The effect of changing a bass note in a chord is huge in itself, there’s just so many avenues to go down with music.

However, The technical limits on what could and couldn’t be done also defined so many great albums. In fact it’s pretty annoying that we have everything available to us, yet the innocence and naivety gets lost as a result. It’s quite scary thinking how well artists like Kraftwerk painted this future.

I re-watched the original Woodstock documentary this week and my head is full of questions and detest for where we are as a society. I feel that I need to join a band, and just integrate with people more.

I don’t think clip launching is going to help me fix that, for sure! :slight_smile:

I think you may be right! Although Vince Clarke has stated in various interviews (even some recent ones) that he strongly prefers interweaving monophonic synth parts to chords (as played on a single instrument). But maybe Vince’s aesthetic was formed because of the limitations imposed by being able to afford only monophonic synthesizers in his formative years. Whatever may be the case, even his current to die for synth collection includes mostly vintage monophonic analog synthesizers that do not include the ability to store your own patches. But of course, this may simply be due to the fact that he prefers the sound of those synthesizers and not that they are monophonic or that he can’t store his patches. As someone who doesn’t appear to be a huge fan of modular synthesizers, this inability to store presets would certainly seem to be an oddly desirable feature for Mr. Clarke.

It wasn’t until the second Depeche Mode record, “A Broken Frame,” that the band started to include chord parts. By then Martin Gore had purchased a PPG which is polyphonic. But even on that album, it’s still mostly Kraftwerk-style monophonic synth lines and musical sound effects. By that point I think the monophonic approach had become a part of their developing art form rather than resulting from hardware limitations.

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THIS^^^^^^^

They need to rewrite the engine for that to happen me thinks.

I surely hope this is the case. Anything that can prevent Steinberg from doing something as demonstrably stupid as adding clip launching features to Cubase is certainly fine by me. But I highly doubt this is the reason. Do you,“shanabit” or “oqion” have ANY evidence to support the claim that Steinberg would have to rewrite their entire audio engine to add such features?

Isn’t it far more reasonable to conclude that the reason why Steinberg hasn’t added clip launching features to Cubase - “gapless” (in a sample accurate sense) or otherwise - is because the vast majority of Cubase users don’t want (and certainly don’t need) them?

Does disabling ASIO Guard improve the continuity of the playback? I’d imagine the main problem is Cubase renders stuff ahead of playback, so disabling it should at least minimise the issue.

Have they asked the user base about it? Because otherwise - how would they know?

From my experience people don’t ask for features because they don’t know they exist or they never used them and can’t imagine how would they help them. But it’s silly to assume that a feature that basically made Live a defacto standard for electronic music is a gimmick that noone wants. BTW the same is true in the opposite direction - Live users have been begging Ableton for shared clips, vari audio, actually usable mixer, chord & arranger tracks, etc. for years if not decades. Are those things a gimmick to you, too?

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Again, you are suffering from the delusion that the majority of Cubase users are electronic “musicians” (who between layering audio loops can barely bash out their “wobble” basslines with one stubby finger let alone even conceive of playing an actual instrument like a piano or playing 4 note chords).

Cubase users primarily consist of serious songwriters and professional composers who can indeed play their instruments and who do not need clip launchers to help them write or arrange their music, you know, that stuff with sophisticated yet accessible chord progressions and memorable melodies unlike the practically atonal, monotonous, unmelodic shrieking dreck that passes for music in contemporary electronic circles.

That’s why Cubase users care about features that actually help serious musicians record and mix their music (unlike clip launchers which serve no useful purpose for real musicians and accomplished arrangers).

This is pure musical racism. You should be able to defend your case without insulting other genres and artists. You can not reduce a whole culture and genre to a bunch of people who has no idea what music is.

Also things you attack

could easily be found in 20th century classical and jazz. Should we dismiss them too?

I think elitism is the word you are looking for :stuck_out_tongue:

I do think doing something like integrating Dorico directly into Cubase would be a higher priority than Clip Launching.

If you look at Steinbergs marketing, most the time it is composers, sound designers, post-production, etc, etc. Or, if you go look at the cats doing Cubase youtube tutorials… many of them again are composers, or a musicians musician. This is the target demographic.

But, I have to say… for a certain point there and in some ways still… Electronic Music actually became more expressive than real-instruments “Rock” and “Alternative”, like, classically expressive and classically compositional. Not everyone in the genre is a mouse-clicker, lots of knob twiddlees out there.

Yes you are right.

Personally I do not care for clip launching. I am not for or against it in Cubase. Indeed I would also prefer other features implemented instead of Clip Launching.
I use Ableton Live too and do not use its clip launching features at all.
I just find it odd to attack other genres to defend a DAW

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I thought this thread had been closed ages ago. It needs closing again as it seems to turn to trading insults. There’s nothing new to be said in this thread.

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Generation X for the win… Just sayin’! :slight_smile:

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Well, please start by reading my post in this thread about writing chord progressions. Basically, if you write a different progression for almost every section of your song (which you can do by simply “feeling out” the chords - no need to use some advanced Chord Track feature of Cubase) then the song will pretty much arrange itself. Of course, you must employ a little thinking - as opposed to brain dead clip launching - to support the process. For instance, every once in a while I will use a completely different chord progression for Verse 1 and Verse 3 (if I even have a Verse 3) in a song. But I will write almost identical musical parts and vocal melodies over the different progressions (or at least write parts with the same phrasing and contour). That just keeps things interesting without having what sounds like an overly complex harmonic structure to the song.

See that was easy. :crazy_face:

EDIT: I recently started to write a song that I initially called “Sixth Sense” because I planned to use six different chord progressions in the song. (That’s six different progressions, NOT chords. And these are simple Pop songs, mind you.) I still included six different sections in the song but included only 3 different progressions. For the other three song sections, I simply wrote different song parts over the same underlying chords (as obvious as that sounds). That worked almost as well as the different progressions approach although I had to think a bit harder about how I was going to arrange the song by writing different parts for the same chord progressions. But there was never any need to clip launch these different song sections that used the same chord progression. After one listen to each song section and its different parts, I knew in my head how to sequence/arrange the different sections.

Oh, and I know you are being sarcastic with your post. :dart:

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Clip launching to me, is less about progressions and song structure - and more about emulating a jamming environment.

i.e. I would maybe have one or two keyboard progressions, but I could intertwine those with 10 drum parts, 5 bass parts on the fly to see what fits - it’s like when many people jam in the room and “Happy surprises” come up.

I’d prefer to be in a room with people, of course. But if your only time to do music is 10pm onwards it becomes a bit tricky unless you sell your soul and join the vampire music making community. Not a fan of 15th Century renaissance though. :slight_smile:

The big danger with session/clip launching is that the final production becomes a series of loops which you then linearly fill between with transitions - the end result can be very sterile.

This is a big reason why I avoid software like Ableton, it’s just too easy to churn endless shite out - and if I’m tired I’ll just fall down that rabbits hole. I do like that Cubase makes me more deliberate in approach right now, can’t lie.

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Thank you very much for your reply. I’ll think about it.

And no. I was not sarcastic in my post. I’m sorry if it looks like that and creates such impression. I really interested in upgrading of my knowledge and skillset in making music.

I agree with it. Very often inspiration and some ideas come to me in that chaotic process of playing something, looking for the sound (let’s call this “sound design”).

When I launched Bitwig Studio for the first time (it was version 1.0 and I didn’t have experience with Ableton Live before that), I just was so impressed with this ability to jam with myself. And also modulations that Bitwig has really help to extend an inspiration.

Sometimes idea of separating music creation to jamming/sound design and actual production stages come to me and I think about using Bitwig Studio for generating initial idea, looking for sounds and then arrange them in Cubase but every time I have this idea I think it’s overcomplicated process (but close enough to analogue workflow where you’re restricted to use what’s in your synth including step sequencer etc and you need to record/transfer it later to your DAW, 8-track and whatever you use).

Just a quick question:

  • Has somebody from Steinberg put out any information about whether implementing LIVE playability / Session View is being considered and now on the roadmap for development?

i would LOVE it, but my hopes aren’t high, especially since they released the VST Live - even though it has a different approach and no session view - i guess Steinberg will feel like they’ve covered the “live thing” now. So, once again, do we have any official information about Steinbergs stance on this? Would appreciate a quote/with link to it :slight_smile:

There’s nothing as far as i know and people tend to vigorously push back on the idea. It’s a real shame. I’ve pretty much moved over to bitwig now, I simply make better music in bitwig because of session view and session view alone. No audio cutting out when i add plugs is nice too, love it. Wish it was as refined as cubase when working with audio but i just make better ideas because of the randomness you can get with a clip based daw. Hence why live is so popular. If they bring back resizing the right click pop up bar and a session view i’ll upgrade, until then i’m staying with 9.5 and transferring projects over to bitwig.

Just seen another way of Steinberg achieving this-ish…

Have the facility to launch multiple browsers within Cubase (MediaBay/Loop Browsers.?) instead, and audition/play a loop from inside each simultaneously, with them all syncing perfectly. Something like this:- Tracktion Waveform Quick Tips 2 Multiple Browsers - YouTube

Looks like some fun…!

Am also reading (haven’t tried myself), currently possible with latest WaveForm 12 Free:- Waveform Free | digital audio workstation band editing software - Tracktion