Showing rests in voices, in a divisi section

Dorico
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Following on from my last thread (Cue-like notes which don't get played & aren't from another part)… I’ve complicated things by adding a divisi, and now I don’t understand what’s going on with the voices and rests.

DoricoVoicesQuestion20220914
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I think I do understand the basics of voices. I realise that the blue is one voice, the green is another, and the red is another.

I explicitly created the green voice as explained to me in the previous thread. IIRC it’s actually the third voice (second up-stem voice, even though I switched off the stem), because I wanted the blue rests to appear underneath the green triangle.

I didn’t explicitly create the red voice, but it does make sense to me in principle that telling it to put a divisi there would create a new voice.

But then I’d have thought the divisi-related voice would naturally start where the divisi starts. And then what I would expect to see (and would like to see :slight_smile: ) is a red crotchet rest on the third beat of bar 88. Instead there’s this red rest for the whole bar, and a gap where I think the crotchet rest ought to be.

If I put in a note on that “empty” third beat, I can tell it that the voice starts on that note, and that makes the bonus red rest disappear. But I don’t actually want a note there :slight_smile:

Then I thought maybe I could put an explicit rest on that third beat instead, and tell it that the voice starts on the rest. But when I tried to put a rest there, it didn’t actually arrive. I can get the faint image of the rest hovering over that space, but when I click it, nothing happens.

One possibility which crossed my mind is, is it something to do with my having pasted the red notes from another part? Maybe I pasted in a bit too much? But it also won’t let me say that the first red note is the start of that voice. The little slider button just slides straight back.

Then I thought, well I don’t understand this! so rather than trying any more “let’s see what happens” experiments, I should probably ask if someone might give me an explanation of the underlying logic :slight_smile:

Thanks in advance for clues!

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My first reaction is to move the divisi start to the beginning of the next measure (103?).

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(I think the next bar is 89; the system track showing 103 is for the system below, probably.)

@Jennifer_M, Derrek’s suggestion is a good one: you’ll probably get better/more reliable results if you can position divisi changes at barlines.

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Thanks both. Yes, I did have it like that briefly, and iirc it resolved the oddness. But it also made the little green triangle appear on both lines, which isn’t correct - that “note” only belongs to the top line of the divisi (the players who are moving into fifth position). And I want them to move that finger up as soon as it finishes playing the previous note, i.e. the triangle is currently on the correct beat. So I do actually want the divisi to start where it does! if that can be made to work.

(I’d probably rather leave the weird rest as it is than give the green triangle to some players for whom it’s a wrong instruction.)

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(but I suppose I could move the triangle onto the first beat of the next bar… will consider that too…)

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but yeah, aside from possible workarounds, does this actually make sense in some context which Dorico is “thinking about it”? Or is it a bug?

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Try this: Replace your green note with an unslashed grace note in voice 2 before the rest in bar 89. Change its properties to Show before barline and Scale to normal size (also change notehead and remove stem). This gives me…
div

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Ah yes of course, you need different material in the last beat on the two staves.

In that case, I’d move the divisi to before the tie, so the start of bar 87, and manually duplicate that note onto the lower divisi staff. I certainly wouldn’t rewrite your musical intention to suit the software!

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Thanks Lillie, that method has worked nicely in this case! Luckily that added bar was already on the doubled stave, so it hasn’t meant any further wiggles to the part layout.

I’m assuming the red “bonus rest” was actually a kind of minor bug, then, and no amount of trying to understand why it was there would’ve been helpful in my understanding of “voices”, correct me if I’m wrong :slight_smile: