Small suggestion: turn off “Flow Headings” by default (or if you only have one Flow)

Spent a long time trying to find the setting to change this after it was added to 2.2 and I can imagine it also potentially causing unnecessary confusion for new users. Why not make the default for “Show Flow Headings” to your title info to be “off” in Layout Options—>Page Settings->Flows (especially if you have only a single flow in your project?) Just my two cents.

Nope, we’re definitely not going to do that, but if you want them off by default you can switch them off and then click ‘Save as Default’ in Layout Options to make that the default for all of your future projects.

That answer sounded fairly definitive, but I’ll add my vote to turning off flow headings by default if there is only one flow. I imagine a significant percentage of projects will indeed have only one flow (I’m just guessing, obviously) and I agree I could see this being an extra layer of detail (and confusion) for users that aren’t used to it.

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The answer is indeed definitive. We’re not going to start changing layout options depending on the number of flows in the project.

Even just allowing users to “opt in” to this feature then and leaving it off by default until someone needs it (given that I agree that the majority of projects are single flow I’m guessing) would avoid unnecessary confusion - I certainly found myself scrambling with a deadline looming as to how to disable this and finally ended up individually double-clicking in the parts and deleting it there as I didn’t have time to find the setting. Again, just my two cents.

For what it’s worth, like every new feature so far flow headings are clearly and thoroughly explained in the version history document, including all relevant options. It may be worth taking a look at that pdf after major updates.

I did initially, but later in the heat of a deadline didn’t have time to remember where to find the info to turn off the Flow Headings (or even to come here and ask, since I’m sure someone would have given me a helpful answer).l But I’m really speaking more about the newbie who might start working with a single flow and wonder why they can’t get rid of the “extra” title - it just seems unnecessarily confusing when you’d presumably want the first experience with the program for them to be as stress-free as possible (which could be achieved by simply enabling this feature only when the user might want to add it, for multiple flows, later, but having as a default it turned off). Again just my two cents (but YRMV).
Best -

  • D.D.

Really good advice. The PDF that comes with each update is invaluable - I find myself dipping into it almost every day.

Different people understand things in different ways, but it’s not too hard to guess which one of Layout Options, Notation Options, Note Input Options, Engraving Options, and Playback Options it’s going to be in, IMO.

But I have come across the situation where people have been using “illogically organized” software for years, have learned how to do the things they need by rote, and don’t immediately “get” the fact that Dorico is (almost always, at least) logical!

With the proposal, if you add a second flow then headings would suddenly appear. That would be strange.

Agreed. That’s why I amended my suggestion slightly by simply saying that it might be less confusing if “use Flow Headings”, etc. was simply off by default when a new Dorico user first opens the program (regardless of how many Flows they were using), and if they wanted to add it they could (since otherwise for possibly the majority of new users, they may wonder why that “extra” title is there). As I said, simply a “small suggestion”, etc. but I of course defer to the developers.

  • D.D.

This is a situation where “templates” would be quite useful. The default could be on, with the user who mostly makes “one flow” charts saving a customized template for say lead sheet work or whatever one-low project they need, and have the default behavior for larger projects.

Binkeys, you can overwrite the default Layout Options for all future projects, by which I mean you can turn off Flow Headings today, save as default, and never be bothered by them again.

I would like to enter this discussion as I was confused as well trying to understand these changes in a last Dorico version. Of course for a symphony with many pats it is a very useful improvement. But, as other forum members mentioned, there are lots of users which need for their smaller projects just one Flow. If you turn off all Flow headings, you will still see this small heading on a beginning of the 2nd page - “Flow 1”. In order to have there your project name, you have to enter Setup mode and change a Flow Name to a Project Name (confusing again) or to open a Default Master Page in Engraving section and change manually {@flowTitle@} to {@projectTitle@}. And so EACH TIME ???
Why not to let user to choose between an old and new Dorico behaviour with a new single option in Layout Options turning a Project Title on or off?

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Mipi, I think that option’s already there, isn’t it? Set Flow Headings to show Never and set each page to use First master page, both in Layout Options, then Save As Default.

Hi together!

I don’t have a distinct opinion about the question, what should be switched on or off by default. I think, we will be able to handle it in both ways. I appreciate flow headings.

BUT: Since Dorico released them, I wonder why flow-heading changes are attached to pages and not to the flows themselves. During the process of composing a flow might grow or shrink. In this case I have to keep in mind the page layout of the whole document when I add some bars to one of maybe 18 flows.

Let’s say I write a document containing 6 sonatas, everyone of them with 3 or 4 movements. The headings of the sonatas (i.e. of the first movements) will look much different to those of the other movements. Wouldn’t it be much easier, if I could rely on my flow-heading changes with no respect to the size of any movement?

I can even imagine a situation, in which I will need different flow-headings on the same page.

On the other hand I cannot imagine a situation, in which page-wise changes of flow-headings are a real advantage. But I might be wrong. Tell me, what you think about that!


But this is not new behavior. From the beginning (I believe), Dorico has always created a Default master page for page 2 and following, with the flow title centered in the header. To change that after two years of consistency would be unhelpful, I think.

If I have a project with one flow, I typically don’t even touch the project info. I double-click to edit the flow name in Setup, and save the file as the project name. YMMV. And I’m usually working from a template anyways, so my “new” projects never had flow headers showing by default, since my default blank project isn’t showing them.

I think the better answer is the future functionality of importing and exporting master pages and master page sets.

As Daniel pointed out above, you only need to turn off flow headers once, then save that as the default. Easy enough.

Ben, flow headings do respond to changes in the length of a flow, and it’s perfectly possible to have a different titling arrangement for e.g. the start of the second sonata in a multi-flow project as distinct from the title of the final movement of the preceding sonata. In that case you would have your new sonata start on a new page, so you’d use the ‘First’ master page for that, and each movement, including the first movement of that new sonata, would use the flow heading.

Dear dankreider, you said, you won’t typically touch the project info and change Flow name only. But what about Untitled Project 1, which appears on a very beginning of the 1st Master Page? I still have to delete it. The other thing - Flow Name is now attached to the music frame and for a 1 Flow Project it is just to close to the music frame. It is also a bit smaller in size then Project info. Yes, this setup ist just perfect for Multi Flow projects, but not for a Single Flow Project.

Of course, I can change manually Flow text size with a text tool, and adjust manually a distance between the Flow Name and written music changing values in Layout options - Page setup - Flows - Flow heading bottom margins, I can drag the whole music frame to the top in a Master Page Editor to avoid a unnecessary space there. But imagine a new user trying to understand what is here going on…

Thats what I mean with an old and new behaviour. There could be just two main options in Layout Options: Single Flow project, where Flow Titel would be in a size of a current Project Titel, wont be attached to the music frame and Project Name won’t appear on a top of the page, and Multi Flow project with all advantages we already have.

mipi: Yes, I guess you’re right. Like I said, I almost never start a truly “new” project, so I’m never working with the default master pages.

Again, I think this confusion will be mitigated when true templates are added. I do like your idea.