Not that I mean I want to eradicate them from Cubase altogether, because much to my amazment I’ve actually heard a few and far between comment that people actually use these things.
However, for those of us that do not use them (which seems to be most of us), it would be marvelous to have a way to shut them off… GLOBALLY. For those of us in post production (mixing, editing, any job that involves moving and duplicating events on a large scale) these things serve NO function but to get in the way and have the potential to create an enormous problem of events out of alignment.
So we are literally forced to make sure that hundreds (sometimes, even thousands) of these little unnecessary work-makers are at the beginning of the event before we begin work on said project.
Now I’ve started a thread over in the GENERAL section of the Cubase 8 forum, where it seems many of my fellow Cubaser’s feel the same way. They serve no function for us, and there is no way to shut them off. I’d like to make an official request to SHUT SNAP POINTS OFF GLOBALLY.
And by comparison, there IS a way to shut off HITPOINTS globally, however, which as I pointed out on the other thread, there is far more use for.
So yes. Please help us lowly mixing and mastering engineers remove these little thorns on a global scale so we don’t have to waste so much time doing them one by one, or creating macros.
+1, even though, instead of disabling them globally (or in addition to it), I would prefer a way to edit them in the Project window Info Line. Actually, a Snap field do exists in the Info Line, but when you edit it, it moves the Snap Points AND the events. A modifier key for moving just the Snap Points (or even better put them at the 0 position relatively to the events’ start position) would be fine for me.
That’s because the Snap field on the Info Line was designed to work with the placement of Events (or individual notes selected in the Key/Drum editors) specifically. The Snap Point associated with the Event is simply taken along as a consequence.
But, what you go on to also say, I completely agree with; it would be great to have a modifier key to move them or simply place them at the Event start (and to do so for all selected Events, or all Events on a Track if only the Track is selected). Or, have a global preference to not set them in the first place…!
Have I missed something here… Can’t you just simply turn off the snap function? I’ve just upgraded to 8.5 from 5 (big jump) and noticed I couldn’t move the snap point all the way to the end. If I’m doing reverse reverbs/cymbols etc, I prefer this. The lil S box stops it, I thought that was strange. What I did find was everything normal seemed to work much better.
As far as I know that refers to something different even though it does sound like the same thing.
Let me exemplify:
You want to move a specific event that has a snap point to a different track. When you try to do so, say by clicking and dragging the event to the desired track, and then “snapping” the event back to the cursor, or the nearest bar, it won’t snap to the event start, it’ll snap to the SNAP POINT start, which could be GOD KNOWS where in the event. So, you have to go in and set the snap point to somewhere where it won’t interfere, in this case, the beginning of the event. THEN do your move.
Now multiply this times how many events you have in your project that you want to move. Which, sometimes in my line of work, can be in the hundreds.
My aim is to disable them all on a global scale, or at the least define them as all automatically at the beginning of said event. Even if the beginning of the event is changed. So now, when you go to move an event elsewhere, it will refer to the visible EVENT BEGINNING as the point of snap. And furthermore, will NOT place them elsewhere OTHER than the beginning in the case of recording.
The snap points (previously Q points) predate warping technology and are still a valuable editing tool. I was a beta tester for all the emerging programs in the early 90’s and the Q-points were one of Cubase’s stand out features.
Now if you’re talking about automatic hit point detection you can turn that off in preferences. Hit point detection can indeed be a fuster cluck for those who don’t need it.
As far as the S points are concerned; For those of us who prefer to use warping as a last resort the snapping function is still a valuable tool. Not only for musical applications but for sound design as well.
If you are of the opinion that they are useless then I’m guessing you simply have’t had the need or known the benefits of using them.
There are many features in Cubase that some people don’t need. But shaving off well established features is not the way to go.
And to Puma0382’s point, you can’t just write code to move them to the beginning of events because by design they are quantize points. And the beginning of an event may not be quantized.
But if memory serves me, the S points usually ARE at the beginning of events.
A global preference that simply eliminates the creation of snap points? Maybe. But then your just working old school Protools style. To each his own I guess.
If you really don’t use snapping just turn off snapping.
“…You want to move a specific event that has a snap point to a different track. When you try to do so, say by clicking and dragging the event to the desired track, and then “snapping” the event back to the cursor, or the nearest bar, it won’t snap to the event start, it’ll snap to the SNAP POINT start, which could be GOD KNOWS where in the event…”
I see. It appears you cut your teeth on protools or Studio one or Logic or something. By the sound of that description you moved events free form and then expected them to retain their time stamp. The S point should be at a snap value unless YOU changed it. Which is fine but if you move an event free from at least take the time to adjust the S point to a snap value. You can do this by moving the front of the event with snap turned on and then dragging it back to an earlier snap point. Then you’re locked again.
What I’ve done when making free form adjustments is creating a PART to contain the free form events. The PART will have an inherent snap, usually a bar. Now you can move your free floating events to another track and all nested events will stay where you put them. By doing that you create a new “event beginning" as you put it.
( I see this is an old thread. I hardly ever come to these forums any more.)
Yes, I made this distinction earlier in the thread many years ago. I LOVE hitpoints when they’re needed. The difference there is you can SHUT THEM OFF, snap points will remain despite any options you tick, short of the snap function. Which we all need, obviously.
This is true, not once in my 15 years of audio editing professionally have I utilized a snap point for what it’s for. They have simply gotten in the way for the last 15 years. But I can appreciate the fact that some folks definitely value their functionality. For the rest of us though, they are not only a nuisance, but a time suck as well when dealing with them on a large scale. I was reminded of this just yesterday when I was sent a new project for mixing. I imported all the tracks as I normally do, and lo and behold, about half of the tracks (which is about 15) imported not to the beginning of the event, but to the snap point. So now, I have 15 events out of alignment because of these damn things. I now have to MANUALLY go thru the out of alignment events, navigate to the start of the event, bring the snap point to the beginning, and then position the event to align with the rest of the 30 events. Now, multiply that times 12 songs. You can see the frustration. And I have NO IDEA why these snap points appear seemingly at random within these events. They’re not even on a beat.
I am in no way suggesting that we remove snap points all together, I am merely suggesting that we introduce a way to shut them off globally, much like we can with hitpoints. OR at LEAST have a function that will send every snap point to every event’s beginning. Every event should be able to snap to the beginning of the event, if we want them to. I don’t think that’s too much to ask.
That just shows your ignorance on this topic. This isn’t true at all. Snap points can be brought to any point in an event. This can be tick based, or time based. As to what predetermines where they go (especially upon importing audio files) is beyond me.
Wrong again. I use snapping constantly. But this function becomes anti-productive when the event snaps to somewhere out of alignment due to functionality beyond my control.
Wrong AGAIN. You’re making a LOT of assumptions and most are incorrect. At least ask if they’re true before commenting on them. I have NEVER used Logic since I don’t own a Mac, or Studio One, and the only times I’ve used Pro Tools was to get projects out of Pro Tools and into Cubase. I cut my teeth on SX, if you must know, in 2003 and have remained within that workflow and I think Cubase is nothing short of incredible, particularly now. I’m just surprised that this snap point issue hasn’t been dealt with up to this point.
And further to that, the only reason I know snap points EXIST, or can even be changed, is because I discovered them as the culprit of out-of-place events upon import, and needed to change them BACK to where they belong, at the beginning of a file or event, which is at least where they should default to upon new import. At least have an option to move all snap points to event beginnings upon import if you know all events have the same zero point.
Look, I’m not suggesting we eliminate your precious snap points all together. All I’m suggesting is a way to deal with them all in one command. This would save (some of) us massive amounts of time.
The title of your post says; “Snap Points. HELP US TO ERADICATE”
I’m not sure what your understanding of the word “eradicate” is but the Merriam-Webster Dictionary definition is.
1: To do away with as completely as if by pulling up by the roots
2: To pull up by the roots.
That headline is what drew me to comment on this thread.
So, Before you go calling anybody ignorant I’d brush up on your understanding of the words you choose.
And you used the same language in 2015.
And you’re calling me ignorant? You were admittedly clueless to how snap points work.
I was using Cubase when you were still watching Sponge Bob and drooling on your diapers.
Learn the functionality of the program.
And not to beat a dead horse but in that thread you say “…no other DAW has them [S points] to my knowledge…” And as I “assumed” before, you’re expecting Cubase to act like other programs. Cubase is better than all others BECAUSE it has unique features.
Yes, they can be BROUGHT to any point. Any files imported into Cubase will have the snap at the beginning of the file and any subsequent cut.
NOTE: There was a time in previous versions of Cubase where S points would “snap” to the closest Q value when adjusting the start of an event. And I learned how to work with that functionality.
But for a long time now, S points stick to the front of events unless you change them. (unless there’s some preference somewhere that I overlooked)
No, the snap point always moves free form. Unless you are recording new events that have a random start point other than a Bar. In that case Cubase will assign a snap value to the closest Q value. Which is a good thing.
I’ve been using Cubase since before it even had audio capabilities and I was a beta tester for all these programs in the early 90’s.
SX was a hot mess. A complete rebuild of the original program due in part to Apple and Microsoft radical operating system changes and Yamaha purchasing Steinberg. It took years of dialogue to restore lost functionality. Some of it still gone.
So bragging that you cut your teeth on SX only means that you had a very unfortunate first impression of Cubase.
I’ve heard people ask for a quick way to reset all snaps to the front of a file (event) but that can be a disaster too. Again, find out WHY the snap points were not where expected. In short, learn the functionality of your DAW.
A flexible snap point is an asset. I work with snap on a lot of things like cymbal / timp swells, evolving sound effects, percussion that I want to retain sound that precedes the crest or just ahead of the beat, vocal alignment… etc etc etc. I also nest most of my work into Parts. Another unique and indispensable feature that many people are clueless to.
Bottom line; the snap value will be at the top of an audio file / event unless you moved it. (or recorded not using a Bar as a starting point.)
Please demonstrate these “random” snap points.
Upload a video which shows you importing files that have “random” snap values. If they do have unexpected snap values on import it might be because they were moved or recorded in another Cubase project and then imported.
BTW - Calling someone ignorant during civil discourse does not define them, it defines you.
So I made a little movie to demonstrate how snap points work.
I imported some stems that a client sent for me to mix.
I drop them into the arrange page.
First thing we notice is that snap points are completely invisible with files dropped onto the arrange page. Even when I cut them.
Next, I nest a track into a Part to examine it more closely.
Inside the Part I can see that the snap point is AT THE BEGINNING OF THE FILE.
I then drag the beginning of the file back and forth and the snap sticks to THE BEGINNING OF THE FILE.
Next I cut the file and the snap point is located at THE BEGINNING OF EACH NEW EVENT.
I turn the quantize snap value OFF and conduct the same experiment and… for each cut the snap point is at… (wait for it) … THE BEGINNING OF EACH EVENT.
AND you can’t even see the snap point on regions that are not highlighted.
THEN I did something very interesting. I MOVED the snap point myself ! Then when I move the beginning of the region past the snap point, the snap point follows. BUT, when I move the region beginning BACK to the earlier point…. the snap value STAYS WHERE I PUT IT .
Whoa, you REALLY need to get less sensitive about this. I stand by my statement that I do not want to ERADICATE snap points from Cubase, I realize that other folks use them a lot. Fantastic! When I say “eradicate” I simply mean eradicate them from a project. In fact, I think I was quite clear about this IN THE FIRST LINE OF THE THREAD where I said “Not that I mean I want to eradicate them from Cubase altogether…”
I know what the meaning of “eradicate” is, otherwise I wouldn’t have used the word. Please don’t talk to me like I’m a 2 year old who just learned the f-word.
Noooooo… I never ONCE called you ignorant, sir. I simply made the statement that what you said makes it sound very much like you’re talking out of context, or at least, out of context from the rest of us who want a way to deal with snap points on a global basis rather than a case-by-case basis. That’s ALL I’m saying here. Clearly you use snap points a lot. Otherwise you wouldn’t be getting so offended by this. And that’s totally fine man! Your use of Cubase clearly differs from mine and the other folks on this thread, and there’s nothing wrong with that.
Not in my experience, no. This is partially the whole point of this thread. Otherwise I wouldn’t have nearly as much of a problem with them. I’ve imported raw audio files that were cut to all have the same start point - and when I imported, there’s been MANY cases where these snap points would appear at random points and throw the respective events out of alignment. This is my whole gripe with these snap points.
NO IT’S NOT! This is another HUGE gripe I have with these snap points!! And once again the whole point of this thread man! It is NOT a good thing! Why the hell do they need to be assigned anywhere besides the beginning of the event?! Do you have any idea how often I or anyone else could start recording in a spot that was a random position in the time grid, that WAS NOT the beginning of the bar, or a beat? Why can the snap point simply be assigned to the beginning of the event, whatever timestamp that may be? Or better - have an option to let US decide where Cubase puts them?
I really don’t care man, really. This is absolutely not helpful for the folks coming to this thread with the same issue with snap points that I have.
How the HELL does that sound like bragging? Bragging was the furthest intention from my mind. I simply stated that I cut my teeth on SX, because YOU, very assumingly, stated that I cut my teeth on Pro Tools and I was correcting you. That’s all. I’ll be honest man, I can’t stand Pro Tools and I’ve never used it on any project.
I for one, LOVED SX when it came out, because I saw that Steinberg had something that was amazingly different from the Pro Tools and Digital Performers of the world, and I was excited about it, so I gravitated to it. And subsequently, that’s what I used as my DAW of choice! Sure, it had it’s issues, but so do a lot of platforms at that age.
Believe me man, if I could figure it out, we wouldn’t be here. I import a LOT of files from a LOT of clients, and I really don’t care if you believe me or not, but I’m TELLING you some of them end up in random spots due to snap points “ending up” in the wrong place, then I gotta go through hundreds of events and put them back where they belong. This has clearly not been your experience.
I don’t need to. Like mentioned above, this just randomly happens upon import. Obviously I’m not the only one because there’s other folks on this thread that agree with me. Let me give you an example: I’ll import 15 events from a drum session, and the Rack Tom 2, and Overhead Left tracks will be out of alignment due to snap points out of place. There’s zero explanation for this, because I’m quite sure these folks would not have recorded the Overhead left mic and Rack Tom 2 tracks separately, or in another project.
Again, never once called you ignorant, I simply said some of your comments were ignorant, and they were. Don’t assume you know everything about anyone’s working history based simply on their issues with a feature that creates more work than necessary. Please understand this is on a scale of HUNDREDS of tracks, and it gets very frustrating wasting your time on this with that many events.
Also, thank you for taking the time to put that video together. It totally exemplifies that we’re not talking about the same thing.
Well - then lucky you. Then what I’ve been talking about has not happened to you.
Jeez! This would be AMAZING if it happened like that all the time. But it doesn’t. This is why this thread exists sir.
That is very interesting! And quite genius.
I’m well aware of all this functionality you’ve kindly demonstrated. This shows that you are very, VERY badly missing the point of this entire thread man. You are not experiencing what we’ve been experiencing, which is fine. But, if it was you who needed to manually navigate to the beginning of the event, move the snap point there, line up the event with all the rest, rinse and repeat several dozen times before you can even begin work, you probably would agree with us.
Honestly, I use S points much less than I used to, with all the warping options now. They’re still an amazing unique feature when I need them. Otherwise I barely know they are there. As I demonstrated in my video.
If I was offended by anything it was your immature attitude.
Upload a video demonstrating in real time what you’re complaining about.
And while you’re at it upload the same files someplace so I can import them into my system.
I made that assumption because you don’t understand S points. You admittedly didn’t know of their existence until something went sideways in one of your projects. It’s actually a common issue for people migrating from other programs.
Hmmm, The plot thickens… so you were familiar with other programs then ? Which is it.
How could you possibly know the relative differences without exposure to the others?
Book lernin’ ?
Upload a video demonstrating in real time what you’re complaining about.
Yeah… upload some videos demonstrating your problem. We’ll see who’s comments were ignorant.
If it turns out there’s some sort of bug in the build of Cubase that you’re using then I’ll admit there was a problem.
Otherwise, the video I uploaded speaks for itself.
I’ve already made some suggestions earlier in this thread as to where a problem like this may originate.
Incidentally, what version of Cubase are you using?
I’m back to update and revise my comments on this topic and to confirm that the Snap anomaly being described here does in-fact exist.
I was recently setting up a mastering session for songs which I mixed myself in Cubase 10.5 when I noticed that the mixes were SNAPPING TO UNEXPECTED VALUES.
I recently upgraded from Cubase 8 to 10.5 and I have NEVER encountered this behavior until I upgraded.
My best guess was that there was a change in the new Cubase export functionality and there was something in the metadata of the WAVs I was exporting that didn’t need to be there.
For many decades I only used AIFF, which as everyone probably knows does not include any metadata. This could be another reason that I never encountered this anomaly. But I honestly believe that it did not exist in Cubase 8, which had the older export functionality.
In the video below you will see me import the songs to Bar 2. Many of them have seemingly random Snap points and do not snap to Bar 2 as I intended. I have not verified this yet but my hypothesis is that the songs that DID snap to Bar 2 were exported from beat one of a BAR. The ones that did not snap to Bar to were exported from either a BEAT or QUANTIZE value. meaning that my left locator was placed at some value OTHER than beat one of a Bar.
So, I went into the export dialogue and noticed that “Insert iXML chunk” was enabled. I disabled it and exported one of my mixes again.
Then I imported the newly exported song into the mastering session and the Snap was at the top of the audio, it snapped to Bar two. Same song. You can see I amended the title to “test No iXML”.
So, it appears, presently, that the iMXL data contains the Snap value data.
THEN, I imported all the songs to the mastering session again but dragged them all to Bar1 Beat1. The files snapped to Bar1 Beat1 and the S anchor was there as well. So, a temporary work-around for folks who are receiving WAVs for remixing should always drag the files to Bar1 Beat1. That will solve the “random snap value” anomaly for files which contain metadata that’s problematic. I use the term “random” very loosely for now because it appears that this problem is not necessarily random but a byproduct of unnecessary metadata on WAV files.
If you want to be totally free of this anomaly, ask your clients to deliver AIFF.
I’d also like to point out that the Snap point is not available on the arrange page. Only from inside the Part editor. Hopefully this is another preference I have turned off somewhere. Otherwise, I think that’s a problem as well that could be making this issue even more elusive and frustrating. Again, I don’t remember this being the case in Cubase 8.
All that said, my opinion that, snaps falling to a quantize or Bar value when punching on the fly is the correct behavior, still stands.
This is a cursory experiment. There may be other variables to consider.
This is an issue that goes all the way back to SX for me, not just Cubase 8… and you’re right about importing to Bar1 Beat1. It does not occur when you import to here. However if you import all files to say, Beat33, this is where possible (not always) issues may occur.
I will try the AIFF method!! If that works, maybe in the future I will convert all files I get from clients to AIFF, or maybe just request them in that format.