Solo button turning on and off without automation?

Hi folks,
Here’s a weird one-I have a large project with several group tracks. When I soloed one of the group tracks I noticed sounds coming through that were not part of that group. Then I realized that another group had also “soloed” itself. I am looping a section that I’m listening to. I pushed the mute button on the offending group and when the loop came back around the group solo light came back on! When I turn off read automation on that group then the behavior doesn’t happen, but here’s the crazy thing-there is NO automation written for the solo/mute track on that group!

Is it at all possible that there could be automation somewhere else in the project that would turn on and off the solo for a group?!?

For me when there is no automation - automation level is white. When there is something considered being automation it is green.
I’ve had that line is green but see no nodes. And if using command to hide all, and then show used automation it comes up.

There are various delete automation operations to really clear selected track from automation - try that.

There are also settings in Preferences about inheritance for solo through routings, and whether pre fader sends are muted when soloed etc.
If you have armed for writing automation and a track is soloed, it may be written as automation too. If using the global solo/mute thingy it’s easily done to move something.

Hi-yeah…that’s what I’m trying to say. The automation lane is white. There is no automation written on the mute lane (and I don’t see a solo lane). However, the white line jumps up and down with the flickering change of the mute button. It’s so weird.

That it jumps up and down is normal - a white volume automation does the that with fader as well - it just follows you level.

But if it does while playing loop it reinitialize at start of loop - is that it?
If you move that loop start - will it also change when the other tracks change solo state?
If this happends - that position it activate solo again move - then it’s no automation itself that do it - just reinit in a loop.

If above test does not move the point at which solo comes on try this below - then it is some hidden automation somewhere.
If you got too many soloed from a solo - don’t mute - unsolo it - to see if it sticks even when restarting a loop.
And go through select all these affected tracks - and use delete all automation for selected tracks.

It might be the reinitialize that is spooký.

I played around some yesterday with this - and tried various settings soloing a group track - the one to solo source or not etc.
I expected turning off to solo sources would not solo tracks going into a group track - but I might got that wrong.
I notised no difference. So I am trying to get the full picture myself here. I will try the loop thingy later.

I am not explaining the issue very well. The mute button goes on and off on it’s own. There is no automation written. The automation line is white. The section is looping and I see the white line jumping up and down with the mute button going on and off. But there is no automation written to make those jumps happen.

Did you check this by invoking “Show used Automation”?

Yes. Like I said-I can actually see the white automation lane jumping up and down. The only way I could do that is by having it “shown”, right? This is on a group. There is no way that a groups mute can be controlled anywhere other than in that specific group automation lane is there? It’s so weird.

But did you invoke that command? You are saying there’s no automation on the track- in that case the automation lane would have closed.

Ah I see what you are saying. Yes, I had to actually open the dropdown to find the mute automation track in order to see the white line.

No, that is not what I am saying.

Go to the Key Commands dialog, find the command " “Show used Automation”, assign a keystroke to it, and then hit the keystroke.

We seem to be talking in circles.

An automation lane that is white has no automation written on it.

“Show used automation” will only show automation lanes that are not white.

The mute automation lane is white. There is no automation written on it. Yet it was bouncing up and down. I had to go in the automation lane dropdown lane and open the mute automation lane in order to see that white line. I saw it bouncing up and down on it’s own. How could that be?

And…this is all a moving target in a very large project. The issue seems to have resolved itself now-like all fun bugs do. :-/

Next time when I write a bug report I will save the project under a different name so that I can continue to work on the project and still go back to the time that the issue was happening.

Well, it’s just a troubleshooting step. It’s conceivable that some other track is controlling the track in question, and I would want to expose any possible culprits. That connects to the question in your OP.

I know it’s tough now since I can’t easily recreate the issue now, but can you give me any example of how I could be controlling that parameter from a different place? That is exactly what I was thinking must be happening but I didn’t know where to look. Keep in mind this was on a group track, so my first instinct was that somehow one of the tracks feeding the group was doing it??? I was also thinking there was some possible weird midi note signal coming from somewhere that was automating that mute button? I’m just traveling with my laptop right now though with no external controller.

Who knows? Not me. But if I were having that problem I would think the same as you. Then I would show all used automation, (and hide lanes without, which is what the command does) and just watch for a culprit.

As far as midi messages doing it, it’s conceivable if you have virtual midi routing going on, like in Apple’s IAC bus. Check in Device setup for remote devices routing, in that case…

If it happens again I’ll save a copy of the project and start deleting some of these (hundreds of other) tracks to try and reduce some clutter to isolate the issue.

Something seems a little weird though - about white automation lines.
When you do hide all, and show only used - such white automation lanes comes up.

If that is it got initial value or something, don’t know. Consequently though, I feel it should be green if it has any value.

White line shows - and you can just move a fader(if volume automation) and line moves.
If it got initial value - it should not, or?

Anyway, have not been able to re-create OP solo problem. Tried with various instruments today as well. Doesn’t solo feeding sourceing midi tracks to an instrument - but that may be by design. Also made a key command for mute sources to toggle in between, but notice no different anywhere doing this.

If to hint what I would test with a massive large project - I would start a new fresh one - and just import a couple of tracks at a time with import from project - the offending ones to start with. Does not give all routing but could quickly make a sample project. Or if doing a track archive of problem project - even routing should be restored when selecting some at a time.