Hi,
working in Dorico is rather intuitive, but sometimes Your workflow can be “interrupted”. This is - for me - the case when trying to find objects and functions in the notations toolbox.
Here some suggestions to clear things up:
“tremolo” is a musical ornament and belongs to “trills” not to “repeats and endings”
“repeats and endings” should go to “bars”
Playing techniques could be beneath “dynamic” - this would be more logical to me
Rehearsal marks could go with cues - because both are for orientation of the reader of a score
Text and lyricals could be in one category because both is for actively writing
I would leave chord symbols and fingering as they are, maybe in the near future steinberg adds a sophisticated numbering-tool for basso continuo (figured bass)
Hope this can help -the message is: please do not make the notations toolbox too busy…
Actually, the tremolo notation isn’t just an ornament but an abbreviation for repeating notes. A good explanation can be found at Jennifer Cluff: Slashes through note stems? . The number of slashes equals the number of beams you would normally have if all notes were written out. So, a quarter note with one slash equals two eighth notes of the same type. It’s just a shorthand way of writing repeating notes, and therefore it should be repeats.
Dorico isn’t finished yet, and that also goes for repeats and endings. I could imagine that one-bar and two-bar repeat signs/functionality would also go into this category once implemented. And there are also “segno“ and “coda” type repeats that aren’t fitting into a “bars” category.
I agree with with @nussbichler, tremolo is a playing technique. Maybe some people use it as a shorthand but for instruments such as Mandolin that use it for a specific effect, it’s definitely a playing technique.
I agree the tremolo should not go in the “repeat tool” menu, as I see repeats (repeat endings, D.S./D.C., one bar repeats (%), etc.) as being more musical-form related, not so much as note related. The tremolo is a repeat, so I understand the reason why it is where it is, but I think the tremolo is more of a note repeat and not a musical-form repeat.
I believe for this reason, the tremolo should be moved into another category. Possibly even one of its own.
I refer to my former teacher Nikolaus Harnoncourt and he said that every repetition of a tone is an ornament or variation of a tone because it changes his colour. @VIPStephan: inside the notations toolbox You see all kinds of tremolo and also the notation used for trills of thirds or 4th or chords - this shows that they are ornaments or “sound variations” of tones or intervals as trills are. The decision wether it is a rhythmical repetition or an unmeasured tremolo in many cases depends a lot on the context, the style and the tempo. A tremolo on the timpani p.e. can be notated in both ways, as a tremolo and also as a trill…
I agree with Robby Poole who mentions above that repeats are more musical-form related - there is no doubt about it. This is the reason I suggested to put repeats into the “bars” category, bars are divisions of time in a formal perspective. But @VIPStephan: I can approve Your argument that steinberg certainly has specific plans for this category and we cannot see the final result yet. Therefore I agree it is difficult to discuss the positioning and order of the elements. With every update of Dorico I was surprised concerning the intelligence of this amazing software and so I suppose there will be future surprises .
nussbichler, without wanting to become esoteric, if we follow the theory of physics, we will find that even repeats and pitch of notes are related.
The pitch of a tone is determined by the rhythm of the sound waves travelling to the ear.
So what starts as a rhythmic repeat of sound events, if you speed this up, you will end up with an audible pitch of a note. That is, where the meaning of frequency probably comes from, a frequent repetition.
I understand that tremolos are technically repeated notes, but personally I always have to look in two or three different places in Dorico before I find them in the repeats section. They simply aren’t associated with repeats in my mind.
I agree with 1, 2 and 4 but I’d leave the rest as they are. Personally I don’t mind if it’s “busy” on the right hand side - maybe collecting them into groups (which is pretty much the case at the moment) and putting spacing between the groups might help visibility.
Thank You for Your reply - meanwhile I think the same. @point 3.: Maybe the solution would be to make the parts of the palette arrangeable so You can change the order. Everybody has his nown individual workflow…
A view from a string player: the tremolo is a different technique than repeated notes are. Tremolo is colouring a note, make it sustain at the same time. Repeated notes are a rhythm, even if they are repeated very fast. I have to agree that the audible outcome can get close…
OK, I can go along with many arguments brought up here. I don’t know if there is any UI research about that but perhaps it could be an option to put slashed notes into several categories (and perhaps with a different sound/playing technique associated with them?).
I don’t feel being tricked - both is possible and better than repeats/endings.
I like the idea to have “O” for triggering Tremolo-Samples and “P” for rhythmical divisions (repetitions), both with the slashes and the first one (Trill) also with “z” (like the sign for fast unmeasured trem.). What do You think?
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