I am finding that, with parts, the spacing between the staffs is always different on the last page, than it is on the other pages. The default seems to be to have them a bit tighter together on the last page, for some reason? I have fooled with minimum gap between systems, and with threshold percentages in layout options, but that always seems to result in the staffs being spaced very widely apart, such that they hug the top and bottom of the page. What I want is for the staffs to be the same space apart as they are on all the preceding pages, and just end wherever they end on the page. Could there be an easy way to get there as a global setting?
Thanks for reading, all comments GREATLY appreciated, thank you!
You could decrease the height of the music frame for the last page. It’s best to create a new default page template and insert a page template change for the last page. That is, if you can’t find any global settings that work.
This isn’t how Dorico works; it uses the same spacing values on each page – although vertical justification will then spread things apart to fill the whole frame.
It sounds like you don’t want vertical justification, though, so as long as you have it turned off (set the first threshold to 100%), then the only difference between pages will be caused by collision avoidance between staves and systems.
(There is no way to turn off vertical justification just for a single page, if that’s what you’re looking for.)
Thanks for the replies! I believe you are referring to “Justify distance between staves and systems when frame is at least x full”. If I change that from 60 to 100 I see no change in how the last page, page 4 is handled. It is still tighter together than than pages 2 and 3, which are spaced identically, with 9 staffs per page. If anything there is more ledger line activity on page 4 than on the other pages. (of course if I set it to 0, just to make sure it’s selected properly, it pushes all the staffs to fill the page, which results in them being very far apart). Granted it’s not a huge amount, but it’s enough that the arranger I’m working for doesn’t like it.
The spacing of the last page only seems tighter because page 1-2 are justified, therefor a bit more spread out then your layout settings would otherwise dictate.
A special template for the last page, as @jesele suggests in post#2, or even a page override to reduce the height of the music frame of the last page can bring those staffs closer to each other. Only use a page override if you’re sure nothing has to be changed after
I can’t read in your image what the current fullness of the last frame is. If it is under 60, then yes, changing the justification threshold between 60 and 100 won’t make a difference, because it’s under the threshold anyway.
If you set it to 100, then none of the pages will be justified, and they should all have the same spacing.
If you like the way pages 2-3 look, and you want the spacing of p.4 to match, then as others have suggested you need to make the music frame on p.4 shorter (and keep the justification threshold at something like 60). Then justification will kick in and space those systems out a bit more.
What we need is a “on the final page, only make the frame as big as is needed to ensure staves are aligned with the staves on the previous page, even if it means they should have a bit more space then the ideal gaps” setting.
Quite off-topic, but that reminds me of this limerick (there are many different versions).
There was a young man from Japan
Whose limericks never would scan.
When asked why that was,
He replied "It’s because
“I’m not really sure but I think it might be because I always try to cram as many words into the last line as I possibly can.”
Thanks for input. Sounds like I will have to make the staffs fill the page and then shrink the frame. Not that pretty a solution, but at least there is one.
I agree with the automatic frame setting option. Not a terribly unreasonable request, I think!!
If you don’t want to change the size of the frame on the last page, you could move those systems manually, matching their distance to that of the previous page. This is what I usually do. It’s pretty quick but it would be a convenient function if Dorico could do this automatically.
Can I ask- what makes you prefer individual moving of staffs over changing the frame- wouldn’t the latter be easier? What’s the downside of changing the frame size?
I’m probably missing something (people with much more experience than me have already weighed in) but why not simply increase the default vertical spacing slightly? Wouldn’t that be the easiest solution?
It seems to me that the problem is that you think those values are too tight, but it’s only noticeable on the last page since the others are justified to fill the whole page. The screenshot isn’t clear, but it looks like the previous pages are about 87% full, so they shouldn’t be affected?
For sure I thought of that. But what I found is that as soon as I started pushing up the minimum space between staves, the staffs in pages 2 and 3 started moving further apart. Doesn’t really make sense of course! but I did abandon that solution after that.
IMO, the advantage of changing the frame instead of moving systems is that you still get the benefit of Dorico’s automatic collision avoidance. If you move the systems, they become fixed, and then if you add a new tempo mark or something else between systems, they don’t adjust. If you resize the frame a bit and let justification fill it out, then collision avoidance can still adjust things inside of that.
The downside to resizing the frame is that it creates a page override, and then that page will no longer respond to changes to the underlying template. As long as you take this step at the end of your layout process, this is often okay, but some people prefer to avoid page overrides at all costs. The downside to moving systems is that those changes are locked to that page – but the same is true of frame changes as well.
If pages 2 and 3 were already justified to fit the frame, then changing the inter-system gap a little shouldn’t make a difference – until you get to the point where you the bottom system gets pushed onto the next page.
Instead of creating a layout with 9 + 9 + 6 staves, why not just create a layout with 8 + 8 + 8 staves? That way, everything would be beautifully balanced across the 3 pages!
It’s not a bad idea in theory. But sounds like a complicated approach when applied to the 80 or so parts that I have to deliver in the next 2 weeks, each of which has a different number of bars.
when I change it from 10 to 11, it remakes the spacing for all the pages, with more space between the staffs. Puts 8 staffs per page instead of 9. It does make the last page look identical to the others in terms of spacing, which is great, but I don’t want more space between the staffs than I have currently on page 2 and 3.
Yes, that’s what I meant. Probably you could increase it a little bit at a time to increase the spacing on the last page and leave the others alone, but at some point the amount of space you ask for is too much to keep 9 systems on those pages, and with only 8, the justification spreads them out wider.
