Not disagreeing. They’ve received that feedback before, so hopefully there is a fix for it at some point.
In the meantime, I make use of the track configurations presets in the Nuendo mixer and keep in sync with edit window. I have a config for DX, Amb, Foley, MX, VCA, Bus. These configs are pre-mapped on the UF8 to the 8 send/plugin buttons. So if I do DX edit or mix, I hit the 2 button, and all non-DX tracks get hidden. That limits them to 2-3 pages max and most likely the track I need is on the current page. That system also declutters the UI.
And it’s pretty easy to program custom buttons along the top (you have 5 banks of 8 for different functions, such as punch-preview, etc.
With a recent update of the SSL360 software they double-tasked some of the buttons for transport functions. Not as ergonomic as the Avid Dock transport section, but also doesn’t take as much desk space up.
For large sessions (100+ tracks), the SSL 360 plugin mixer is potentially interesting. Though it’s more tuned to wards music mixes than film mixes. You can easily have 50+ tracks in view across your screen, as on a big hardware console. But you are limited to channel strip and faders, which may not be enough. So far no send controls or inserts. You can do that without hardware controller.
I’ve given them feedback on what is missing in the plugin mixer to make it usable for film mixes. And they are listening.
@allklier , I’d be interested in your opinion of the Avid Control software, I’m trying it right now on a Samsung tablet and it’s really responsive, easy to get around and lots of programmable key potentials. Have you used this software?
I’m using an Avid S1. The controller in combination with the Avid control app works pretty well. But the Eucon implementation in Nuendo has to improve. Therefore I’m always pushing this EUCON Update! - #2 by basicX thread. Generally Steinberg is aware of the Eucon “issues”.
@TBA Yes. I originally worked in ProTools and had an Artist Mix and a Avid Dock with an iPad Mini running the Avid control software. And Avid has been aggressively promoting that software even on their bigger consoles. I think the strategy behind it is, that it’s easier for them to innovate and update software rather than design new hardware. So it’s logical and to some degree an advantage.
That said, I’ve found touch screen apps somewhat pointless. Because I’m working on large film mixes usually, it’s unrealistic to have everything I need, including many different plugins mapped to the control surface. So I can’t work with just the control surface in a session, but always have a combo of UI w/ trackball and control surface. And at that point, the main purpose of the control surface is tactile interaction, multi-track fader rides, and muscle memory on certain buttons/knobs that I use all the time.
That’s the antithesis of a touch screen control software. At that point I might as well either just use the mouse/trackball and do it in the Nunedo UI. Or if I just need some simple button shortcuts, then I could get a much cheaper and less hassle StreamDeck XL.
Given that premise, I have several issues with the Avid surfaces:
The build quality of the Artist mix and it’s faders is kind of so-so. The Dock is slightly better, but not fantastic either.
If you use the Avid dock with an iPad, it gets really tall. So unless you have a custom build desk, chances are the controller blocks view of your UI monitors. So the dock/iPad combo is not very ergonomic for a standard desk setup.
As mentioned earlier, the Eucon software has been hit or miss for me. Some days it works great, other days it can be a real gamble whether all the controller connect. Even with the iPad control surface. You can’t just manually enter the IP address and have it just do its thing. It has to auto discover via Bonjour on the network. It works for most people, but if you’re not one of most, it’s really frustrating.
As to the control software itself. It’s well designed and I have no issues with it, other than that I really don’t want to use a touch screen UI for this type of work. And there are a lot of pages. I think it works best if you have multiple screens and keep them open rather than paging back and forth all the time.
But a lot of that depends on how you’d like to work and what type of sessions you have.
I know you weren’t asking me, but since you were wondering what it’s like my take on it is that while it’s maybe not essential it’s actually pretty convenient. Things I like are;
larger color coded text / icons compared to some options
access to all Eucon functions and to regular key commands/macros, including macros in the control software itself
the ability to customize pages according to your wishes. I started to set up a few custom pages that are laid out depending on what part of the process I’m currently in
access to far more Avid controller channel/track layouts than soft buttons on the controller(s) provide
much easier programming of those layouts including saving them
at this point I’ve mapped a few too many functions to key commands that it’s getting hard to remember, hence the value of color coded and texted buttons on a tablet rather than my idiot brain remembering it.
So the above is pretty much only about the soft keys in the software, accessed using a tablet (I’m using a cheap Amazon Fire HD). I think that for some other stuff allklier is spot-on. It’s simply not that convenient to use the touch interface for a lot of things compared to just grabbing controls with your trackball or mouse. I tried to use the channel settings page or whatever it’s called and I just found it faster to do it the regular way. Same with some other pages.
Also, for some functions I think you’d need a pretty good tablet and the FireHD I have isn’t really fast enough for some stuff. It’ll show meter ballistics fine but won’t scroll through channels fluidly on one of the pages.
Yeah, that’s a bit of a bummer. In my case it worked fine once I connected straight into my Win 11 computer instead of going through my router. The only thing is that the computer needs a second to recognize it and then Bonjour/Eucon needs to recognize the recognized controller. The “quick” way around it if it’s not seen is to restart the EuCon app from the taskbar. So it’s actually working predictably and well for me.
@allklier@MattiasNYC@chednb , this is all great info, thank you all. My workflow has me designing and premixing in my studio, mostly for themed attraction venues, then travelling to site to do the final mix. I’m having to do everything “in the box” so I can travel with all my automation and tweak once on-site. I’ve been hoping for a solid single fader box to pack with me to mostly manage Groups and VCA’s instead of a mouse. The Avid Control app obviously isn’t a hardware fader but it seems better than using a mouse.
I was hoping to use it as a better transport control. And it can co-exist with the SSL controllers, however it grabs one track, while the rest are on the SSL controllers, so it leads to funky paging for me. But that’s just because I’m using both together. As a standalone unit for travel it may just be fine. It comes with different faceplates, including one for Cubase/Nuendo, and is a decent enough built quality.
For a small single fader solution you can search for a CC121 or a Presonus Faderport v2. You should also be able to customize the Faderport in the Midi Remote Editor to your needs, which is pretty nice.
@chednb I have always thought that the CC121 would be the perfect option, and was disappointed when I discovered the unit had been discontinued. In your opinion is the build quality of the Faderport fairly decent, I’ve heard they’re pretty flimsy and may not be great to pack and travel with.
I had the Faderport v1 and for me the built quality regarding the price was good (metal body, plastic buttons). I don’t know about the built quality of the Faderport v2, but I think the body is now made out of plastic. Size and functions are great imho.
Ah, interesting. Yeah, definitely better to use EuControl with a tablet than mouse… I think…
I guess one thing that could be good is that if you have a hardware problem with a moving fader you might not find a replacement near by since it’s more of an item found in music stores, whereas a tablet can be found in most consumer electronics stores I would think. Not that one excludes the other.
I would probably lean toward a tablet, or at least setting that up and making sure that works and then travel with both.
Seems like it’s being phased out. No longer on the Behringer site, and others list it out of stock/discontinued. Sweetwater still has it, but must be maybe remaining stock. The unit I bought from them was their demo model On the plus side, whatever is left will be discounted. Also can always look on eBay for decent used models. If it was just discontinued, software support will be ok for a while, and I think it uses the standard HUI / Macki protocols, not something proprietary like Eucon.
The other option - speaking of Avid surfaces, you could look into the Avid Dock. It has a single fader and decent controls. I hated the the Mix, but the dock (other than it’s somewhat bulky dimensions) was fine to work with. And it has the stand for the tablet with the Control software. The Dock may not fit into the the 1560 Pelican but should in a slightly bigger. It would give you the option of taking the dock space allowing, and if space it tight just grab the tablet. You will have to work out Eucon though. As mentioned in the thread, it works for many, but there are some pitfalls for some.
Again, all great insights and advice. I’m a bit surprised the both Steinberg and Behringer have discontinued their single fader hardware options. It seems to me that there’s a market for this but I guess I’m wrong. Looking at tablet options, I’ve downloaded the Avid control on my tablet to see how it behaves. So far so good. At first glance, I like the Avid Dock as a hardware option, it does seem a bit bulky, but may be my only option.
Any reason you’d pick the Dock to go with your tablet instead of the s1?
I’d really consider just what you need on the Dock in terms of buttons, and if you can live with those functions mapped to the tablet (if possible) and if you could use more faders then the s1 would probably make more sense.