Steinberg Ecosystem

Now, some might come and say, “Go to a DAW that has these tools.” While Steinberg should be grateful to people like me who brainstorm ideas for them for free. It definitely shouldn’t be someone like Chris Lord Alge who brings up this topic for it to be well-received. A good idea is a good idea; don’t look at who’s saying it, look at what it is saying.

I have ideas for software in various places, both from someone with a lot of experience and someone who has studied in this field. I don’t like traditional thinking at all. Traditional thinking means bankruptcy.

Some people here either don’t understand my point or don’t want to understand.

The demands of people like me do not harm them.

However, the demands of traditional individuals can hinder talents like mine.

We will eventually see that Steinberg will inevitably move towards what people like me are saying.

The time will come when the mistaken updates will come to an end, and no one will be waiting for EQ and Comp. That’s when they will have to go back and amend their traditional codes from the beginning.

Of course, they might be in the process of re-coding right now ?!

Furthermore, Bitwig is an example. Any software that excels in one or more aspects can be examined.

For instance, regardless of the capabilities of Automation that Steinberg has genuinely performed well, the easiest software to apply Automation without a doubt is Ableton Live. When you try it, you’ll understand what I mean. If Steinberg incorporated the user-friendliness of Ableton in Automation into its Automation features, it would be unparalleled.

Even if we don’t make comparisons, the companies themselves will do this.

I insist that Steinberg should pay attention to these matters because it will transform into the best company.

It’s interesting that some friends write that no DAW is suitable for everyone. Well, my question is, what’s wrong if there is a DAW that is suitable for everyone? Would something bad happen? Who would disagree with having an all-in-one tool at their disposal?

For scoring music, I need to import video into the project. Bitwig or Ableton cannot play videos. Steinberg does. Very well, thank you. Now I need a modular space. They have it. Steinberg does not. Is my request wrong?

How do they spend money on Halion or other software, isn’t that wrong? But what I’m saying is wrong? That’s what turns this company into an unrivaled giant.

Even Avid has taken new actions. Look at Avid Sketch.

This is the same Clip Launcher in Bitwig software.

They understand that the war of the future is the war of unlimited options, numerous choices, and ease in fulfilling desires.

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Performance art - Wikipedia

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I mean, it’s important to remember that each DAW has a company behind it that has a specific target audience.

Psychographics, Demographics, Geographics. Holy trinity of marketing. When DAWs, or any service/product, start to try and cater to everything they fall short and become confusing. Each company has their own specialty and, while they may cherry pick features from others for user experience and to test out future updates, their focus is still heavily aligned with that core specialty.

Steinberg is a great example of this. Why two DAWs? Why not just merge Cubase and Nuendo? Cubase is fantastic for MIDI and composers, Nuendo is fantastic for post production. They keep them separate as a way to help their audience not be overwhelmed by tools they’d never use. Meanwhile Avid adopted a tier level model where features increase based on version and pricing but otherwise each version can more or less do the same (to an extent at least).

Pro Tools, the “industry standard” is solid with tracking and mixing. Post? It’s great but imo not the best.

Ableton excels with sound design and live dj’ing.

Studio One, I feel, is still trying to find their footing and has been trying out different things over the years. But it’s a great one for the Nashville singer/songwriter crowd.

Reaper is excellent with game audio with its FMOD integration.

Logic another good MIDI option but is apple exclusive so Apple has just alienated a large portion of midi musicians and composers there.

It goes on. I heard long ago when I first started that to look at which DAW to use/stick with look at the direction the company is headed. That will determine what their features and updates will be catered to.

Suggestions are fantastic and healthy for any company. But we also have to remember that not all suggestions may align with the company’s core goals and market niche.

Case in point, features for electronic music isn’t needed in Nuendo and debatable for Cubase. That’s more aligned with Ableton’s market. Not saying it wouldn’t be worth exploring if enough people want it, but most who do that genre don’t think of Steinberg at the top of potential software to invest in.

Making things more modular would be interesting to play with but if it doesn’t help the workflow of composers/midi editing/post engineers it probably wouldn’t be a good fit for the users.

Just my two cents anyways. I would like to see some ideas of more modular, personally. Always happy to see where workflows can improve :smile:

Agreed.

Or something more mundane… advertising.

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Steinberg does pay attention to these matters, it’s evident in every single release. They may not be up to your personal hopes and dreams, but it’s obvious they are listening to their competitors. They are NOT a monopoly that can behave like they can ignore what’s happening in the market.

The problem is that many people either 1) don’t see that Steinberg devs ARE paying attention or 2) people don’t understand the difficult balance companies like Steinberg are trying to achieve meeting so many people’s expectations while also balancing existing limited development resources, or 3) some people just don’t agree with the direction companies like Steinberg are headed.

If you look at Steinberg’s current biggest competitors, it’s obvious that Steinberg is indeed closely watching, and if you watch the cadence of releases from these tight competitors over years, you’ll see the market dance going on, and Steinberg is clearly responding to one degree or another, in small ways, and sometimes in big ways, when a close competitor adds feature X, then Steinberg may also add their version of feature X, or counter with feature Y that overlaps with feature X. This doesn’t always happen, but it is more likely to happen within the primary battleground of Pro Tools vs Cubase/Nuendo vs Studio One (more recently) vs Logic (still to some extent) vs Ableton (more distantly, but it’s definitely on the radar of all DAW developers). To a lesser extent you also have DAWs like Bitwig, Reaper, Digital Performer and a few others on their radar, but they don’t appear to drive Steinberg as much.

Each release of Cubase/Nuendo specifically touches on all those major market competitors though, and tries to leap frog and innovate when they can in specific markets, which then gets a response from some competitors. Just make a spreadsheet of the last 5 years alone, and compare the release notes and dates of each release from just Cubase/Nuendo, Pro Tools, Ableton, and Studio One, and you’ll see what I mean. Recently, it seems Cubase and Studio One have been trading features, which is hilarious to watch, since Studio One was started by former employees of Steinberg. Even down to plugins where you saw Steinberg improve their EQ, then Studio One did the same, then Studio One introduced the vocoder, and then Steinberg brought back their vocoder, etc., etc., etc. Oh, they’re watching each other. No one is in a vacuum. Just look through the timing of features in other DAWs back and forth and it’s like watching a waltz. Nuendo vs Pro Tools is fun to watch too. Lots of examples…

Also, keep in mind that every feature ANY developer invests in, requires balancing of available resources/budget, and ultimate impacts/results. The good old ROI (return on investment) analysis. So, as a small example, in Cubase 13, Steinberg just introduced a really nice envelope painting tool in the sampler track, along with some great spectral warp algorithms from HALion 7. That was probably a relatively LOW resource investment but HIGH bang-for-buck IMO, since it will definitely make sound designers, electronic musicians, and other envelope-fanatics out there quite happy, maybe keep them from jumping ship to more modulation-friendly DAWs… and now Steinberg’s sample track can do some very nice new tricks. I love it. Good job, Steinberg. COST was likely LOW, RESULTS are EXCELLENT. ROI = GOOD.

These kinds of decisions are what governs companies like Steinberg. Now I totally understand your ideas and recommendations. I think some of them would be super nice. But you and I don’t know the COST to implement them, and while they may be good suggestions (that maybe are already on Steinberg’s todo list!), we definitely don’t know the ROI. We can only speculate. You and others might THINK a certain feature is so obvious that Steinberg MUST be able to implement it EASILY. Well, maybe not. It could be very, very expensive, and even if they WANT to do something like that, they would have to take resources away from something else. If you ran the company, maybe you’d have different choices, but one thing is certain, neither of us has access to their accounting spreadsheets and source code so we don’t know the ROI on ANY feature.

Anyway, I wish you the best. I’m not here to defend Steinberg. I’ve criticized them many times over the years, and I certainly wish they’d finally implement some feature requests I’ve been asking for (er-hem… RIPPLE EDITING for goodness sake! I always try to mention that over and over again in case they’re reading this just to remind them :smiley: ). But ultimately I do think Steinberg is actually doing what you are suggesting, but just at a conservative, very slow, or maybe even glacial pace. In the meantime, you can enjoy Bitwig for all the cool things it does, and maybe use it along side Steinberg products like I do! :sunglasses:

Good luck in your audio ambitions, and cheers!

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Thank you again. Your words are completely logical, and they increase my eagerness to speak.

One of the issues I personally struggle with is the one you mentioned.

Why do companies copy from each other? Surely, it’s to retain their existing users and attract new ones. And when they copy, why don’t they replicate each other’s brilliant features?

Why, for example, don’t they offer the sample rate of 768000 Hz, which Studio One has provided, in Nuendo? (Although it might be introduced in version 13.) This is an irreplaceable issue. It can’t be achieved with plugins or anything else. But the Vocoder, which was recently introduced, has been in production by other companies for years. You can take advantage of them, like Waves Ovox.

Or the Sandboxing feature. This is also a fundamental feature and needs to be built from the ground up. These things drive our progress, not building plugins.

First of all, I must say that Steinberg plugins are not excellent, and they destroy the signal. I only use a few plugins, including Supervision, and do not use any others. If you wish, I can provide a video, for example, to compare the performance of Steinberg’s Multiband Compression and Kilohearts’ Multipass.

Some people like to receive a massive list of plugins and instruments when they spend money on a DAW. It’s OK, but it has a few issues:

If someone is paying for Nuendo Pro, it’s highly likely they are a professional user. A professional user has professional income, so purchasing hardware-modeled processors like Plugin Alliance’s products should not be challenging for them. Therefore, it doesn’t make sense for this person to look for free plugins that come with the DAW.

If a user is an amateur, why would they need a Pultec EQ? Can they even tell the difference? An amateur would be better off working with a Graphic EQ to train their ears.

The question arises, for whom were the Pultec EQ and Vox Comp produced? In other words, who is Steinberg targeting with these tools?

Every company has its focus. That’s why we use Apple computers for added security in our work, but we turn to Audeze products for accurate sound reproduction. In other words, a professional wouldn’t work with Apple headphones because, at best, they can be considered for quality control (QC).

A professional user needs more than these embellishments, like a Sample Rate of 768k or Sandboxing, as I mentioned above. Not something like a Vocal Chain. What does a Vocal Chain solve now? Was there a problem with vocal mixing before it?

I personally appreciate many things that Steinberg has provided, but some of its actions are like child’s play compared to the behavior of an adult.

What Steinberg does is like getting decorations for a building that has fundamental issues with its wiring or plumbing. These actions reflect Steinberg’s lack of focus.

Fundamental issues need to be resolved. Sending in Cubase and Nuendo must be fixed. Limited Send. Limited Insert. Inability to group plugins should be resolved. If someone here had used this feature, they would understand how useful it can be. This feature can be accessed through DDMF Metaplugin, but it’s a bit complex. Complex compared to Ableton Live or Bitwig.

Or one issue that I have personally been waiting for for years, but none of the companies have taken any action, or at least I haven’t seen that it can be done.

To be able to create a chain on just one plugin without altering the original signal.
This means :
opening a reverb in the insert and then opening an EQ on the reverb, but not after it, rather on it. This means EQing the reverb without altering the original signal.

I’ve personally tried many times to be able to process or apply effects exclusively to the reverb or delay in the insert, but I couldn’t find a way. This feature needs to be built into the DAW from the ground up, or I had to settle for limited features within the plugin itself. The only option is to use Send, which is different from what I’m talking about.

Regarding capital return, I must also say that all companies are subject to us.

Subject to their users.

Without us, there will be no company.

We express our needs. They fulfill them. In return for this fulfillment, they receive compensation.

This is the law of supply and demand.

An oversupply for which there is no demand can lead to bankruptcy.

Steinberg has provided a professional platforms, but instead of powerful and unrestricted VST Plugins, it has offered products for which there are many professional alternatives.

For example, a professional never uses Iconica Sketch at any time. We program so we can hear something close to the final product before recording. Why should we use this product when there are companies like Spitfire Audio, Orchestral Tools, and other powerful companies in this field?

Unfortunately, Steinberg has lost its way. The company’s focus should be on host software with technical and visual integration.

It has been over a day now, and I’m waiting for someone to explain why the graphic design of Mix Console and other tools has been completely updated, but Control Room remains as it was in version 9. This has nothing to do with capital. Even a graphic designer with a $20 per hour wage can redesign it. I’m looking forward to hearing from friends, as long as they are logical and don’t divert the discussion.

Backbone, Groove Agent, Halion, or Padshop.

Instead of these, it would be better to create an environment like Grid, which is in Bitwig, and have all these as auxiliary tools within that environment. This makes much more sense. Like Midi Mapping, where we can customize everything for ourselves.

There are many limitations in MIDI effects, such as LFO, and it takes a long time.

I can’t accept that these issues would be difficult for a company with this popularity and income level.

Steinberg has lost many people due to the limitations I’m always talking about.

Removing these limitations attracts and retains customers, or making a Vocal Chain Plugin?

Which one has financial worth?

A lost customer for something else that has no relevance to their needs won’t come back. Those who left Cubase for Bitwig’s modularity won’t return to Cubase with a product like Vox Comp.

Remember that even companies themselves don’t exactly know what’s right.

In Steinberg’s brainstorming room, everything only makes things worse as time goes on.

I hope they pay attention to my words.

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I have read your text.

Before expressing my opinion, I have a question…

If Cubase and Nuendo are designed for specific purposes, why do they have each other’s capabilities?

Everything I used to do in Cubase, I now do in Nuendo. Unless you’re saying that the purpose of creating Nuendo is for Post-Production? So why does it have Production tools? If these two were truly separate, they wouldn’t have the exact same features. For example, we should not be able to write MIDI in Nuendo, but we can. So these are not two tools for two specific purposes; they are essentially the same but with different options.

Your argument is correct when it comes to Cubase and WaveLab, but not for Cubase and Nuendo.

My opinion is that Cubase is also among the company’s additional options. When Nuendo has everything that Cubase has, and even has additional tools, why should we use Cubase? Does this provide us with more flexibility, so we don’t have to spend extra money for something that’s in Nuendo and not in Cubase?

As I mentioned, the production of these two together is not logical, unless they do not have each other’s tools and complement each other when used together.

The target market of companies is determined according to our wishes.

For example Avid Pro Tools as a traditional software. In recent weeks and months, it has taken new actions to attract producers as well.

This means that, in addition to sound engineers, they are also looking for producers.

Steinberg is the same. Otherwise, they would not create products like Halion and the like.

The fact that companies initially produce for a specific purpose is true, but as time goes on, I see that they are looking to attract people in more areas.

Steinberg produced WaveLab after Cubase. Why? To attract mastering engineers, and that makes sense.

Now I’m saying that Steinberg has not been successful in VST production; they should stop it and offer them in a modular platform; otherwise, there are powerful alternatives for its tools, and Steinberg tools, like Serum or Zebra or PhasePlant, which are innovative tools, will never become mainstream.

Just take a look at professional producers.

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BTW, various DAWs do this natively, perhaps one of those will be better for you? Studio One does this with the FX splitter tool, which lets you create multiple levels of parallel FX chains (it’s a very cool feature that a lot of people don’t know about, I love it!), and also Reaper does this with parallel chains and FX containers, just introduced… they are very powerful, I love those too! And if you want to do it in Cubase/Nuendo, there are various options, including using Waves StudioRack, which gives similar functionality to any DAW. StudioRack even supports M/S splits, which is super cool.

Again, maybe another DAW would be right for you? I already explained why things are the way they are. They will not likely change. You can either accept it and enjoy the Steinberg approach, with all the great Steinberg tools, or you can vote with your money by using a different DAW. In the end, all that you are saying won’t change Steinberg. They may listen to a degree and pick out individual ideas that are in harmony with other users’ suggestions, but you are unlikely to move the needle, as passionate as you are.

Consider also there are many other people who want many things, and like I mentioned before, Steinberg has to balance out all the feature requests with their limited resources to get maximum ROI.

Again, I really don’t think you understand how small the DAW market is, and how few resources there truly are. Steinberg is NOT making a huge profit. They do NOT have a ton of money. Steinberg programmers are NOT paid a massive amount of money. Steinberg does NOT have the ability to pivot and make giant changes quickly. It is IMPOSSIBLE. THAT is the reality. Accept it or not, that is FACT. For all your ideas of what would make Steinberg better, you do not understand the business reality.

Every DAW has disappointed users. If they have too many disappointed users, ANY developer will go out of business. Obviously. I’ve explained before that it’s a giant, complex balancing act. You alone will not impact Steinberg. There need to be MANY people like you complaining. And believe me, Steinberg accountants know EXACTLY how many satisfied vs unsatisfied users they need to keep going. You alone will not shift the balance by yourself.

And so far they remain in business. Why is that? Are all their customers slaves or idiots? No one is compelling them to upgrade. But enough of them do, why? It’s very simple - because enough of them are satisfied.

So when you have a company that has a business formula that keeps going, even with some disappointed customers like yourself, they won’t change their formula, because ENOUGH are still satisfied. It will take many more people who complain. But no amount of me explaining that will get through to you, you seem to be looping the same arguments like an Ableton EDM track!

Again, enough people keep buying and upgrading, including people like me. It is what it is. So you can blame people like me who buy and upgrade. You can also blame yourself for upgrading! You say you feel strongly about Steinberg losing their way, but yet you have upgraded, right? So just stop upgrading, that will get more attention.

Again, maybe there’s another DAW for you? I went over the reality of the situation with you, it’s still clear you have no understanding of how they have to balance feature development choices against their limited resources and ROI, and it’s clear you don’t understand how complex it is to change a codebase that already has millions of lines of code. And again, if this doesn’t work for you, and you can’t accept it, perhaps there’s another DAW out there for you? I use a bunch of DAWs. Mainly because I have clients that need me to use different DAWs, but it’s given me appreciation for what else is out there. There’s something great about each one I use. BUT every developer eventually faces the same challenges as Steinberg at some point. When that DAW gets to a certain level of complexity, then it’s the same ROI business decision accounting they have to do.

So based on what you’ve been saying, I do think that the other Hamburg-based DAW might be better for you. Studio One has a more cohesive design language and from the beginning was focused on more modern workflow concepts. Steinberg has been making good strides in workflow (Cubase 13 is a very good example of that IMO), but Studio One has been heavily focused on that from the beginning. It might be closer to the philosophy you like. While Studio One is missing some amazing Cubase/Nuendo features of course, it has some other really nice features that you seem to want, such as the FX splitter feature to create multi-parallel/serial FX chains. Also, since you love Bitwig, Studio One and Bitwig now have released the DAWproject file format to exchange project data, which works pretty well on many types of content. So you can more easily use Studio One and Bitwig together.

Now I do hate to point people away from Steinberg in the Steinberg forum, but in this case no amount of explaining how Steinberg operates seems to get through to you, so I do think in your case the grass might actually be temporarily greener somewhere else, or at least you probably need to spend a year or two in another DAW to see that the grass is actually NOT really greener on the other side of the hill. And again, the most effective thing that anyone can do to impact a developer is MONEY… just don’t upgrade any more, and it sounds like you are at the point where you need to do that.

I have my own issues with Steinberg, but I’ve been sending them money for a long time, and I understand how they work, and I fully accept that reality. I just upgraded to Cubase 13 because I really appreciate the workflow improvements, which will benefit me for some projects I’m working on. The upgrade price was $99 and it is a simple ROI question for me too. Will I save $99 or more of my time by upgrading? The answer is an obvious YES. The improved workflows are excellent. So it’s an easy upgrade for me, and the Steinberg accountants and planners figured out I would upgrade based on the choices they made for workflow, since it will save me a lot of time! They made the right choices for me. But is it everything I hoped for? Everything I wanted? NO! But is it enough for me to pay $99? YES. And if I apply that equation to Steinberg’s other products, it turns out that it has been worth it to ME, since I’ve bought pretty much all of Steinberg’s products over the years (except their sound libraries).

When Nuendo 13 is released, I’ll ask the same questions and see if I upgrade from Nuendo 12 to 13. Will it help ME? Is it worth it to ME? I don’t know yet - we’ll see in the next few weeks/months when Nuendo 13 is announced.

Is Cubase/Nuendo perfect? Of course not. But does it let me do a bunch of amazing things with music and sound? Of course YES. And that’s been worth it for me for a long time, even when I’ve been very frustrated with Steinberg. And Steinberg knows all to well that there is great competition out there, even in Hamburg, and just like any other business, Steinberg has to keep moving forward. If they stagnate, they will lose business. They know that. We all know that.

So in your case, you feel that Steinberg isn’t doing what you need and desire, and you’ve made your case, so in the meantime, if you feel passionately about it, then DON’T send them any more upgrade money. And then, consider using other DAWs. Now I’m repeating myself too much, but this bears repeating: there is no more powerful message you can send to a company than the power of your money. If enough people are dissatisfied like you and don’t send them money, believe me, you will get Steinberg’s attention.

Anyway, I’ll check out of this thread now, it’s been fun, and I have enjoyed writing a few essays here and there. I want to go actually use Cubase 13 and the new fun features right now! Good luck to you and again, I wish you, and all the souls who read all these long posts, the very best wishes in their music journeys!

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It’s fairly obvious why they share functionality yet are different.

All of what you’ve written seem to just come down to you wanting to produce EDM or similar in a specific way and don’t think Nuendo is up to that task. Question: Do you know what “post-production” is within the context of Cubase vs Nuendo?

Does Bitwig have integrated Atmos?
Does Bitwig have AAF import?
Does Bitwig have reconform tools?
Does Bitwig have field recorder tools?
etc.

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Pro Tools’ status in the post market is probably even stronger than the tracking and mixing market, these days.

Lol.

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Yeah post seems to get a lot more attention than tracking/broadcast. But I will say, when I’m mixing live broadcasts and tracking at the same time I won’t use anything else other than Pro Tools. For post, Nuendo has my heart.

You see, for me is the opposite: I hope they get the new mixer look out with the trash and again more in line with control room again.
Curiously you seem to interpret “new” with better, and more often than not, lately, that’s not been the case. For example, BMW cars have become some of the most hiddeous cars on the road, because they didn’t now how to interpret what “new” should be. A BMW 3 or 5 series from 10 years ago is light years ahead in design. Designers have kind of lost touch with good taste, in my humble opinion.

But totally agree with you on the ecosystem part, though it doesn’t bother me, honestly.

I don’t really see anything wrong with the Backbone design.

Also, it’s a sound design plug-in. It isn’t going to use the same core design concept as a DAW.

Using Photoshop and Illustrator as an example can be misleading. Those applications are basically coupled in function. The biggest difference is that at its core, Photoshop is a Bitmap Graphics Editor vs. Illustrator being a Vector Graphics Editor. Design-wise, you can basically copy the design for Photoshop and create any other Vector Graphics Editor using that core design, because the function of the applications is so analogous. The only difference being the type of graphics data they are designed to manipulate.

You cannot take the design of, say, Retrologue and apply it to Backbone. It doens’t make sense. They are too different. Even if you do what you did to Backbone, your entire premise dictates taht this trickles down or over to other products that Steinberg has on offer. So, Padshop, HALion, Groove Agent, Cubendo, WaveLab, SpectraLayers, Dorico, The Grand, etc. This doesn’t make sense.

If you’re going to call that a disaster, I really want to see an explanation as to why. This discussion is fun and can be informative… but, all I have seen thus far is hyperbole.

Again, you cannot have a uniform appearance for applications and plug-ins that differ heavily in function. They deserve their own design that better serve their functional intentions. Homogeneity on works where it makes sense, otherwise others who use the software will wonder “Why are you trying to make it work like X, when it’s a completely different kind of thing.”

I do think standardized iconography and key commands across product lines should be the standard, though.

This is like expecting a Cheetah to look and act like a Leopard, simply because they’re both mammals in the same taxonomic family.

:smiley: !!!

Ever read Dan Lavry’s famous whitepaper on sample rates …?

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Thank you very much.

I have read your text completely.

I want to quickly address some points so that the text doesn’t become too long.

I have used Studio Rack, as well as Studio One, Bitwig, and Ableton, but I couldn’t run two plugins, and the second plugin only affects the first one. In all of these, the second plugin, as you mentioned, seems to have the same impact as the first plugin, and I haven’t used Reaper yet.

I haven’t upgraded to version 13 yet, and I’ve only watched its videos to understand what new features have been added.

I’m looking forward to Nuendo 13.

Certainly, neither I nor anyone else, except for the internal team, is aware of financial and budgetary matters. My point is that Steinberg’s focus is on things that are in second place. Most of us come to Steinberg for host software, not VST Plugins.

Therefore, even if there are billions of lines of code, not focusing on plugins and concentrating on the issues I mentioned can bring about changes. The sheer volume of code is not a good reason for Steinberg to continue in this way. How long is it supposed to be like this? According to your words, we assume that Steinberg’s team and budget are small. Hasn’t the company produced and provided these same products with this team and budget? Moreover, the creation of new VSTs and plugins actually indicates a larger team and budget. This is a logical matter and doesn’t require direct contact with the company or CEO to understand.

I should add that I’m not here to criticize Steinberg. I’m here because Steinberg is outstanding. I love this company, and although I wish to contribute to its improvement, I would be working with other software without any argument if it weren’t for Steinberg’s exceptional features. Steinberg has everything except for 3 or 4 things that may be found in Bitwig or other software. But they don’t have a mountain of features on Nuendo. So, moving towards them is not logical.

When working, anyone can realize how precise and optional Steinberg has designed. If it were otherwise, I would be writing to Bitwig to add Nuendo features. But I’m not interested in other companies. I’m like a child pressuring their parents to obtain some things they don’t have, but you say if you don’t want to change your parents. I can’t because I grew up with them. I’ve been working with Nuendo since version 3. But I have also kept an eye on other companies. That’s why I give myself the right to make requests as an old user of Steinberg.

Yes, I have read the article.

Honestly, I can’t understand a few points.

Do the creators themselves use their products?

I say this because scientific content is often different from performance.

For example, phones from companies like Samsung have specifications on paper higher than the iPhone, but anyone who has actually examined them will undoubtedly understand that Apple’s products are in a higher position.

The issue that Dan Lavry has addressed, I have experienced it differently.

A lower sample rate often causes issues when increasing or decreasing the duration of an audio file. A sound like a glitch is heard.

For me, who has been through this, it’s like what I said about Apple. Maybe others would say Samsung is better, but I’ve had an experience with Apple that dismisses things on paper.

Another thing is why companies like Prism Sound or RME have also gone in this direction?

In my opinion, it’s right that we don’t need something we don’t hear, but an audio file with a higher sample rate is like an image with a higher pixel count.

Although the eye may not detect the difference after a point, it can be useful for editing.

In fact, a few months ago, I conducted a test that shows sometimes scientific claims are different in practice.

For example, many people, by examining scientific content, have concluded that, for instance, a FLAC file is of higher quality than an MP3.

I, in no way, can perceive their change. At first, I thought the problem was with me, but I conducted a test. With the best audio systems we had, I played a song in two formats for people and asked which one is FLAC and which one is MP3.

Without any exception, everyone gave the wrong answer, and none could tell which sound was associated with which file.

A small sample group of 20 people showed that sometimes numbers (like file size) have no effect on our experience.

Lavry’s talk, to me, seems like the kind of talk that can be scientifically defensible but not experientially.

I compared 2 files with sample rates of 384,000 and 48,000, and there was no difference.

You might say now that Lavry’s point is the same, that a higher sample rate doesn’t necessarily improve quality. I agree, but I said it to point out that Lavry mentions in his article that an increase in sample rate leads to file destruction or the addition of distortion. I have never experienced such a thing and have never been able to hear the slightest difference.

The only difference for me is in file editing. In the end, it is supposed to be brought down to 44,100, but before reducing, having access to a file with higher resolution can help in editing.

This is my personal experience.

Which raises the question: Why do you ask for these ultra-high sampling rates at all, then …? :thinking:

It’s fine to stay critical, but maybe you should read up on Dan Lavry’s CV before you belittle his work.

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