Steinberg - EUCON. Why are you ignoring Avid users?

Yes. Very much. Same problem, same solution. It’s two computers that needs to understand each other.

I’m failing to see the similarity. One is a controller used by one or few people to perform specific tasks… the other is an open source continuously developing protocol that actually really is not a standard, there are some anchor points… but it’s pretty open ended and no one actually knows the extent of the internet yet, it developed quicker than we can assess it.

VST is a standard, AVID does not support it.

Really?

EUCON can be implemented in any DAW at no cost, which is why Cubase implemented it. It’s a feature of Cubase and part of the reason I bought a Cubase license in the first place. It would behoove Steinberg to completely ignore improving their implementation since this helps sell Cubase licenses.

The only difference between EUCON and Mackie/HUI is that anyone can make a Mackie/HUI controller, but only Avid can make EUCON controllers. Any DAW is free to implement EUCON as a protocol. Seems fair. EUCON support can be a mutually beneficial relationship: helps Avid sell hardware, and helps DAWs sell licenses to people who want to use said hardware.

The internet is the protocols defined by IETF. All the work is done in the public. No one can make a standard themselves, it need at least two independent implementations before it can be reviewed to make it a standard, and the standard can be changed. So, what standard organisation stands behind VST? I think Steinbergs claims to own it.

Seems to me that Mackie/Hui and Euphonix, (now Eucon and owned by Avid) were all quite happily cooperating with most DAW software houses until Yamaha launched Nuage in direct competition to Avid upmarket controllers. Up until that point Eucon was leading the race for Nuendo control and was introduced into the Cubase installation routine rather than needing a separate download USB dongle licence.

Steinberg use the SDK protocol as their proprietary bridge between DAW and controller. Avid support claim in their forums that the required SDK for the latest releases of Eucon have been exchanged with Steinberg and I don’t disbelieve them.

Avid also declare in their lates PR releases for Eucon 2018.3.x that Nuendo and Cubase are recognised as authorised, supported Eucon compatible workstations. So, why have Steinberg failed to incorporate the SDK (which they own and devolved along with VST technology) and latest Eucon updates into subsequent Nuendo/Cubase updates and releases?

They have stated in these forums a few years ago that they have indeed recieved then Eucon updated SDK and have the hide channels feature and other fixes reflecting onto Avid controllers working, to be included in the next update.

Three years later, we now have Cubase 10 and the reps and moderators repeatedly and ignorantly I must say, ignore posts and requests for information on anything to do with Eucon.

It seems they may have been instructed by Yamaha not to enter into any discussion on the subject which just casts a disquieting cold grey cloud of mistrust over people who have made substantial investments on Avid controllers.

The latest release of Cubase 10 claims a lot, though, a quick look through these forums clearly shows, and even by Steinbergs own statements doesn’t work properly and will be fixed in a forthcoming upgrade! Really…?

Steinberg have repeatedly shown that a new release can easily be used to brush outstanding bugs and broken features under the GUI carpet and people have become quite aware of that tactic.

Luckily, in this day and age, most people own and multiple DAW’s so purchasing the next all singing release is an option, not a nessecity for a lot of people. Its something that Yamaha/Steinberg seem oblivious to as they race on headlong to make thier flagship products look just like Studio One whilst destroying their own iconic visual branding.

The thing is, Studio One has its own dedicated controller, Cubase doesn’t so people invest in Avid controllers and expect them to work as claimed, they should get on it and do it.

wtf is a eucon lol

It is a (very good) software protocol that enables DAW’s to be used with Avid control surfaces. e.g. Avid S3, Avid Artist Series etc. Way better than Mackie MCU I would argue.

Ok, it is somewhat of a niche area, probably hence why it is being neglected by Steinberg but come one… us Eucon users still deserve a bit of love after years being left out in the cold.

Okay thanks for the explanation. I looked it up in google and the first thing that pops up is a convention in Eugene. I mean, I looked it up more and found what it was, but I’d rather have someone explain it in their own words so thanks.

For me, I don’t even really use any such controllers anymore. I generally find it’s just easier for me to tweak tracks inside the actual software. But I’m really good with my mouse and keyboard. I’ve got a ton of custom key commands and I’ve laid them out in such a way that is far better and more efficient than any external hardware. And for dragging stuff, I just practice at getting good with the mouse.

Sometimes I use Aimbooster.com to make my mouse ability so good that it becomes seamless to drag stuff around digitally.

Yep, I’m very good with a mouse too and also have a zillion custom key commands/macros etc. but for some things, I find a controller very useful. And I presume you haven’t used a Eucon controller. Definitely better than anything else out there for Cubase other than spending £20-30k on a Nuage, in my opinion.

What things are that specifically? Are you just referring to moving faders up and down? Or is there more to it that you like?

Editing plugin parameters is the biggest thing but of course moving faders, instantiating plugins, routing, muting, solos etc etc. Mixing basically. :slight_smile: I never use it for audio editing.
Excellent for monitor control in Cubase Control room as well.

A lot of those things I already have routed to my keyboard, so I’m not going to get any faster than a button that’s already where my fingers are.

For moving faders and plugin parameters, I just find that the level of complexity is just too high to justify putting it in a hardware control. Because often I find that I’m using 100-200 tracks in a project, and many of those tracks have several automation lanes active. It’s just easier to look at the automation as I change it and most of the time I draw in the automation. And for plug in parameters, there’s just so many parameters that it would be really confusing to map them all onto a hardware controller, unless the hardware controller was like a perfect replication of the software but just in hardware form (which it’s not).

I feel like perhaps it would be more useful with holder and more simplified synths and plugins; but today’s vsti’s have so many variables (of which I use nearly all of them often) that it just wouldn’t make sense. It’s easier to edit in the actual software, plus I save on money and set up space which also means my workflow is less dependent and I’m able to easily travel and produce without any set backs.

Just my opinion though. To each their own.

Oh and when I want to manually move a knob, i’ll just quickly route the control to a knob on my midi keyboard. And I’ve never really needed more than 3-4 knobs for this.

Again, to each his own.

This is all great FOR YOU, who apparently has not even used the thing that this thread is about. :slight_smile:

True, true. Fair enough. Just trying to add a new perspective as to why they may not be prioritizing this.

They really need to get on this! It’s been going on for how many years now?

Hey guys. Whats the problem? EUCON is integrated in Cubase and it works.

EUCON is a brilliant protocol, it offers deep, comprehensive integration for DAW control. Steinberg played a substantial role in its early development before it was taken over by Avid.

Unfortunately, although the Eucon protocol is well past vers 3, Steinberg have not kept up to date over the years implemting the new features, fixes and workflow enhancements Eucon offers, especially with the mix console, despite stating in the forums they had the new features and enhancements were working and, the upgrade would be released when the adapter, version 3 was released from Avid to Sternberg.

That was some 3 years ago and Steinberg, despite claiming in the forums and in a recent email they were fully committed to supporting Eucon, they have still not updated their adapter so, all though Eucon does work, new features and bug fixes have not been implemented, meaning that people who have purchased Avid control surfaces cannot use many of the new features and enhancements to the workflow it offers although they work really well in Protools.

They need to get it sorted, it’s really dissapointing that Cubase 1O still does bring Eucon up to date. That, as well as many other reasons is why I’ve uninstalled the trial version of cubase 10 and won’t be upgrading at this point in time.

Why are they ignoring Steinberg Controller users?
I give you this. https://www.steinberg.net/index.php?id=downloads_cc121&L=1

Dont cry too much, you fellas aint alone