I had to transpose a piece from Bb to Ab. Dorico has messed up stem of the stem direction seemingly at random. I see no way to correct this except manually using the “F” hotkey.
Or this …
It also has put the B in the alto sax 1 part stem up but the same B in the alto sax 2 part stem down.
Finale has a “Use default stem direction” selectin to correct this but I see nothing in Dorico to do so. Alsp using the “F” hotkey will move an expression or hairpin to the opposite side of the staff.
Right-click>stem>remove forced stem?
If these notes previously had forced stems, then those existing “stem overrides” will be preserved, regardless of the new pitches.
Try resetting stem directions, perhaps globally, to make sure everything is following the default settings.
If you flip the stems again, they might look correct, but they’ll still have a stem direction override that could become a problem again in the future, if you transpose again, for example.
Notes on the middle line either have context-dependent stem directions, or a fixed direction (either up or down).
Tried both doesn’t correct it. Beside I never forced a stem either way except afterwards to correct the wrong ones. I am basically using Dorico with its default settings this behavor can’t be what is wanted?
Alto sax 1 is still up and Alto sax 2 is still down. The very same middle line B.
When you transpose shouldn’t the stems be in the correct position by default?
These look like contextual stem directions: if the B is coming after up-stem notes, then it’ll be up-stem to match. If it comes after down-stem notes, likewise for the B being down-stem.
If you always want Bs or any middle staff line stems to point either up or down, change the option provided in my last reply accordingly.
Yes, thank you, I see that setting now. But it doesn’t explain why the others like the second space bass clef C got one stem down and the other stem up on a tied note.
Again I have not changed any default Dorico setting and this is all Dorico no xml but it does have a lot of copy and paste in it. But that is normal for band scores since there is a lot of doubling.
And I had not “forced” a stem either direction either way until I corrected them one by one.
Is this an XML import or native file started in Dorico? If XML import, when you imported it what were your settings here?
If it’s an XML import, and you told Dorico to freeze all the stem directions, then they will remain frozen in that direction when you transpose.
No Fred it isn’t an XML import and like I told Ms. Harris I have not changed any Dorico default settings. It does have some copy and paste going on since there is a lot of doubling going on like any band chart has.
As you can see it happens more than once since I have shown two examples.
Even on this last score of mine the B is up and down in several places for the same instrument. The stems of middle line B should point downwards on instrumental staves and upwards on vocal staves at least I was taught that. Dorico is a hard program to love.
Thanx for your reply.
If you’d like to share the project, or a duplicated version which only contains the offending bars, someone might be able to look into the specifics and provide more definitive answers.
Ah, I just looked closer at your image here:
If no stems are forced, then these directions will be determined by Engraving Options / Notes / Stems / Stem Directions. Try changing your settings to this and see if the upstemmed notes change directions:
Entered in a brand new default file in Dorico, no changed settings:
Transposed to Ab using the Write>Transpose dialog:
So it is indeed not Dorico that has messed up the stem directions at random – it is you that probably have done something you are not aware of that has created the problem.
If you are interested in finding out what, post a dorico file excerpt.
Unfortunately I have already corrected them. If it happens going forward I will save the offending file.
Yes sir I had posted the same question on the FB Dorico page and got that answer. But it does beg the question why would Dorcio default to this setting that allows stems to be messed up? Stems on the B or D line should go down as the default.
That may be my practice too, but not everyone (historically, professionally) agrees with that.
The only other thing I did to this file beside normal note input was to add a pickup measure at the beginning. Otherwise it was/is as Dorico default settings. I was told the alto trombone part was near the top range and could I bring it down a bit. So it got transposed from Bb to Ab. I was told I can’t say anything negative about Doricvo on the forum but doing this exact same procedure or steps in Finale would not have done that.
Let me ask you if you wanted Dorico for some odd reason to stem up one note in a tie and stem down the other how would you tell it to do it?
I agree with you, as does virtually every notation manual or style guide of the past 60 years, but Elaine Gould doesn’t and they went with Gould:
Having a fixed inflection point helps sightreaders keep their bearings in the staff while reading so is certainly preferable IMO. Here’s Kurt Stone writing in 1980:
Boosey & Hawkes states this even more strongly:
It has been fairly common in UK publishing throughout the 20th century – Novello, OUP, etc. I think it sort of echoes what would happen if the notes were beamed.
In my thinking, by default, the stems of notes on the middle lines of staves should point downwards on instrumental staves and upwards on vocal staves, to avoid lyrics. And I now see from one responder above and a FB answer that is possible with a change in the default settings.
However that still doesn’t explain the tied notes going awry.
And it does not in Dorico either. Actually I have tried to do what you describe in a few different ways to see if there indeed is a problem with Dorico here, and I have not succeeded in getting the behaviour you get.
The only scenario I can think about is that you have at some point (while still in Bb) flipped stem directions and that they have gone awry in the transposition. But as I said, I cannot reproduce it.
Well this is interesting.
If you select a tied note in Write mode and press F to flip it, both notes flip.
If you select one of the tied notes in Engrave mode and press F, only the selected note flips – That would be the answer to your question.
But now I found that if you select the tied note in Write mode and do Force Stem Direction, only one of the notes changes:
Can you reproduce that?
I certainly appreciate you taking the time do make that demo. I have entered three scores in Dorico 5 so I am still learning it abilities so anything si possible but I didn’t force anything knowingly. I didn’t even know that existed.
These three were previously done in Finale. I printed the out and entered in to Dorico one note at a time. I figured that’s the best way to learn it. I u/l it to Youtube so if anybody cares to see it and I think some of the stems are as before I corrected them at least some are.
Dorico score
I am starting a new chart which is all original to Doric 5. I still see the copy and paste stems going the wrong direction. This was copied from flue 1, 2, and oboe to Trumpet 1, 2, 3.
You see it also did not copy some dynamics but I think I see what is happening it is when I transpose the part up or down an octave to put it on the correct range for the new instrument. Dorico doesn’t seem to know how to handle the stems as they are setup in Engraving options. So is there a way to force Dorico to correct stems back to the Engraving option settings? In Finale if this happened I could click on “Use default stem direction” and it would fix all of them.
