The shortening to two letters makes sense on a older console where the scribble strips where limited to four or six letters. Ask the Americans why they chose x as a common, they started it AFAIK.
You want as short a name as possible but giving you the info you need directly at your faders.
Dx04 - dialog track 04
DxGr- dialog group
Etc
I use this (and then 01-10 if/when needed):
Dx dia
Pfx sound “effects” from production (car doors, footsteps, scuffs, cutlery, falls, fill etc)
Fol foley
Fx A-E
Amb A-E
Mx A-C
This results in no more then 8 characters for track names.
Could I use Dia and Mus instead of Dx and Mx? Of course, but as I use those designations for my exports they have just latched on.
One could argue that it would be wiser to NOT use the same name on regular tracks as on the stems so the stems show differently…
You should see our crazy ass Stem Naming
For all deliverables we have a standard based on the DCI naming conventions.
It’s a bit complex to learn, but easy to follow and sorts properly in folders.
Every part is always devided by underscore.
Name_version_part_type_format_framerate_channelwidth_designation
So
BRON_S04E01_V01_TV_R128_25_51_FULLMIX.WAV
BRON_S04E01_V01_TV_R128_25_51_DME_DX.WAV
BRON_S04E01_V01_TV_R128_25_51_DME_FX.WAV
BRON_S04E01_V01_TV_R128_25_51_MNE.WAV
CIRKUS_V01_FEAT_25_51_FULLMIX.WAV
CIRKUS_TEMP_V01_FEAT_25_51_FULLMIX.WAV
CIRKUS_90sA_V01_TRL_TV_R128_25_51_FULLMIX.WAV
Etc
Thus this is how I name my channel names of my stem outputs:
TV_R128_25_51_DME_DX
The only way to avoid that would be to type all the common data in the export name window, but I just know we would all mess up then, so the less written there the better.
So only the title season episode (and version when needed) is written as the export name.
It does make the tracks a bit harder to discern on a surface, but then the only thing I ever do with the stems on a surface is hide them as I basically never touch them so I find it worth while.
My stems normally only have a TP limiter insert for catching accumulated peaks, nothing else. And then there are occasions where I just have to add some additional compression or tweaking to get into spec, than I ad that, but I never ever “mix” using the stems, they are always at the same fader position all through the length of the export.
I used to use underscore as well since I like the way it looks, but someone pointed out that on some systems it’s not possible to move the cursor to the next word when using underscore. So instead of moving the cursor from before the first “B” in “BRON_S04E01_V01_TV_R128_25_51_MNE.WAV” to right after the “1” in “S04E01” for example (if you want to increment to “S04E02”) it’ll just move all the way to the “.” in the file name. I think this might be a Mac OS thing. Either way, I started using " - " instead which worked better for navigation.
As for visually separating different types of channels I’ve basically done all audio tracks in lower case, i.e. “dia” or “dg” followed by the channel number, and all buses/outputs in all upper case, i.e. “DIA” or “DG”. That way when looking at a control surface or on-screen it’s easy to see judging from that if I’m looking at a group/bus or not.
“I never ever “mix” using the stems, they are always at the same fader position all through the length of the export.”
I didn’t use to do that either, and I saw some people doing it for undipped mixes/stems so I tried it out. I basically think that for production at least in the US (for the most part) there’s simply no time ($) to do a truly 100% correct undipped mix/stem. There will always be a compromise no matter how one does it. So really the only question is if there’s a benefit from mixing using stems or not. I’ve found that finishing a mix where you dip for dialog only, and ignoring narration, and then dipping for narration on the actual stem that sums to the full mix, results in really awkward mix movements at times. There will be times where the initial mix moves one way yet you want the full to move another, so you’re fighting your own automation in a sense. The benefit is that once you’re done mixing that way you really do have a couple of stems available that are truly undipped etc. But it’s not a very convenient or efficient way of working, so I tend to do what you do Erik.
I have the luxury of rarely having to think about dipped/undipped mixes (we do tv-drama/trailers and feature films only). We had a feature last year with quite a bit of VO in it and the distributor wanted undipped music for that. It was the first time in years I had to deal with it. So we really don’t have that as part of our daily workflow.
Using " - " is not an option as the request was to not have white space characters. And as we may use “-” within a title for example it was decided to not use it as a separation character.
And no you can’t tab between the various parts, not really a problem imo.
Yeah, a lot of it is a matter of preference. The only reason I swapped from underscore to hyphen was because some had complained about it online, and I know there were several project where I delivered files which were then renamed. So just to spare people the horribly high workload of not being able to “tab” between the parts I switched
Oh well… No big deal I guess…
Those “x” are still an eyesore to me though…
Oh, and not having to deal with undipped is a blessing Erik. Enjoy every second of not having to deal with it. I typically deliver to 3-4 different networks per year, all with different opinions about how that should be done… undipped for narration but not for dialog… undipped for both… undipped for narration and music… dip Mix Minus, but not M&E, or the other way around… all poorly explained… sigh…
Hi everyone,
I am trying to get my first 5.1 Fiction Template done and am browsing this thread.
Fredo, what Inserts do you use on those STEM Outputs? Just Brickwall-Limiting? When using a send to route from a 5.1 Out to a Stereo out, how does it get downmixed? Or is this routing not for downmixing, just for both kinds of projects (Stereo or 5.1) and then just choose which outs to export?
How do you do up and downmixes from this? Lets say, a mix original mixed in 2.0 has to get upmixed for international use. Different session or also done in this setup?
First time professionally working in the 5.1 domain, so I am a rookie in such things.
Nothing.
I use the brickwall limiter from the Dynamics Secion.
When using a send to route from a 5.1 Out to a Stereo out, how does it get downmixed?
Automatically. You don’t have to worry about anything.
Or is this routing not for downmixing, just for both kinds of projects (Stereo or 5.1) and then just choose which outs to export?
You “master” is always the highest track count. These channels, you downmix to lower channels.
We export all the outputs in one go with Channel Batch Export
How do you do up and downmixes from this? Lets say, a mix original mixed in 2.0 has to get upmixed for international use. Different session or also done in this setup?
Upmixing is an entirely different beast. A project that is mixed in 2.0 needs to be Re-Mixed for 5.1. Start from -nearly- scratch.
Or use an Upmixer like Halo. Which is normally only used for upmixing stereo music within a 5.1 project.
i have my set up bassically the way u explained but in Quad in Cubase 11.
My first layer are audio and instrument tracks they go to second layer Quad Grp tracks and the grp tracks to 3rd layer final stem tracks which go out Quad Master Grp. and that goes out Quad OUT
i’m having a couple problems that i don’t understand.
when i try to do multi bounce of the second layer path going through grp/send and master the resulting file is stereo???
How are you routing to both stereo and surround at same time? are you inserting send on 5.1 stems to stereo out? or is there another way?
i figured out what my issue was… for some reason the stereo sends on my final stem channels to my “MIXOUT” mixes (even though deactivated) were interfering with bouncing in many ways… so i made the “MIXout” channels they were sending to Quad instead of stereo. Then all is good when making quad master fader go out the stereo fader. strange that those sends created a problem…
Hi all,
Would you be kind to tell me if what I do is fine ?
all stems groups in 5.1
I want the music in stereo.
I take the MX in 5.1 and i send it to a stereo group (that has no output)
when exporting I select that stereo group with interleave assuming as Fredo said that mixconvert is taking care of everything.
But… Well i didn’t ran some test. I guess it’s not just isolating L&R correct ? surrounds and center are added and lowered to LR ? what is this mixconvert rules ?
Because I was about to set a 5.1 group and add a mix6to 2 and set those laws here and then bounce only it’s L/R
what is best ?
There are some issues with certain down-mix scenarios from 3D to 2D, but in general Mix Convert does its job well. And if you don’t like what you hear, then simply adjust the levels to your needs:
