I have a concerto score where I wish to have an open bar for the orchestra while the soloist continues with normal bars.
In order to hide rests I had to resort to using hidden tuplets, nothing else would work on condensed instruments staff.
For all instruments that has the crochets rest I used hidden tuples in an open bar.
For the harp I forced four whole rests and hid the first two and the fourth one.
But for the condensed trumpet parts nothing seems to work. Not making rests transparent, recucing them in size to 1%, hiding them from the Write menu. Everything seems to work in all views except engrave and print when they show up again. Tuplets was not possible since any attempt to change the four whole rests to a 1:4, or 4:16 (depending one what note value is selected before entering the tuplet results in a crotchet with a “1” tuple sign over it and then three crotchets with a “3”over it.
Hi. Another solution here would be to apply a global meter to the bar after E like 4/4,16 (if the solo lasts 16 quarter notes, but it could be 4/4,128 if you need 128 quarter notes !!!), then for the solo violin, use a local time signature (caret at the start of the solo violin second bar, shift M, 4/4 then keep alt pressed while pressing enter in the popover).
Thanks for all the effort you went through creating this example. I haven’t come across the concept of entering a time signature followed by the comma and a number. I tried the x open bar option but it created all sorts of other problems. I am going to give this a try straight away and report back.
As a relative new user I might be unaware of many of the solutions, but I must say, so far the combined staves seems to be giving me lots of headaches.
I’m not fishing for help on these - I’ll create separate topics as I’m trying to deal with each - but just in this score, I have been unable to use staff visibility to hide combined staves, I’ve been unsuccessful at hiding hairpins by making them transparent, I cannot get get combined instruments to have joint stems after a certain point in the music (which it did automatically up to then) even though the instruments play in unison and I have copied and pasted the parts to avoid them having differing elements such as slurs and made sure they’re in the same voice…
So please be on the lookout for future posts from me - you seem to know your stuff, LOL. (I promise to do my own research before I post.)
Hey, I was not finished here ! Sorry for not understanding right away (I’m guilty of reading too fast… and English is not my native language).
Here’s my attempt for the solution to your problem. I notice I have some trouble with the rests coming out in the second page when condensed, while they should be retained in the 29:1q rest, and for this one, I’d ask some help to @Richard_Lanyon
Yes. I might still use tuplets to force the rests to be on the page in view. It could perhaps be possible if you’re not dealing with a 16/4 bar with two breve rests in essence, then. It seems the difficulty for Dorico is creating tuplets (with rests) where such a whole and long bar is completely empty of music.
The staves should of course be hidden from the next page where only the soloists play. (Another difficulty for the combined staves on my first attempt…) However this would mean that I would not need to extend the global open bar past the first page (presuming that I will be able to adjust bar numbers later on to only count one bar for the whole cadenza).
In my example, I actually have chosen a larger time signature (4/4,32) so it does extend after the first page — and there’s the problem I would like @Richard_Lanyon to look at — why all these half rests, while they should be inside the 29:1 tuplet?
As a general rule of thumb, consider that every rhythmic problem can be solved using hidden tuplets. Dorico excels at nested tuplets, because it’s using abstract mathematics that make it exact, so usable. Now if you want to get further in this piece, please do, and we’ll try and solve each problem one after another!
I am going to spend some time now playing around with this. I have used the nested tuples thing to great success in the past trying to affect payback a certain way. We’ll get in touch later. And thanks again.
With respect to the original problem, usually what people do in these circumstances is to put the soloist’s material under a tuplet, rather than the rest of the ensemble.
I’m not sure I understand Marc’s question though, as this thread has become rather complex.
it’s the end of the previous page, and the next one. You can clearly see all those half rests appearing… In an ideal world, I would probably have chosen a shorter time signature, got rid of all instruments starting from there and only the solo violin would appear. But here, why does Dorico show those rests, they should be integrated in the quarter rest with 29:1 tuplet. It’s as if some rule does not let Dorico display an empty bar…
Note that the problem only exists on condensed staves that had that 29:1 tuplet. The trumpets do not behave the same.
This would be a later-than-initial go-to for me. The thing is, the cadenza got quite complicated from the very next page on as you can see… Play-back is of concern to me. I even created some hidden 9/8 bars from after the repeat sign so that I could create “cheat” grace notes (normal notes that’s just been reduced in size since the grace notes play back too fast.) I know ideally one should probably change the properties of these in the options menus but it is also not something which I need one way for the whole work.
Let me just add I’m so impressed with the fact that Dorico allowed playback for Arco and (LH) pizz at the same time in the last bar here without any effort!!! This program is truly amazing. Coming from a 30 year Finale user.
Right, I think this is something we know about already (our ref: STEAM-9791). Basically there are some known issues with system breaks that occur in the middle of a condensed tuplet.
Ok, great! In any case, I don’t think I would have the problem in real life, since I’d make sure the bars end at the end of the page and then those instruments would be hidden… I could have problems later when taking care of the individual parts, which I would solve easily by duplicating the flow without the solo violin and would get rid of the additional bars of the cadenza if needed. In any case, each score would get its solution
Object achieved! For the first page, at least. I first thought if all else fails I could move all four semibreve rests in Engrave mode to overlap where I want the “single” rest to appear. But that would be a bit of a pain. Then I start thinking about tuplets again. But all-rest tuplets kept changing the note values and I thought it would take crazy maths to just get it to be a single semibreve rest in the line and then I’d probably still would have to reposition it. Then I thought, what if I first tried to work with notes and THEN if I can get to single semibreve note, try and change it to a rest. But then it struck me: keep the third rest a rest and make the others noteheads which I then made hidden in properties panel AND not playback. This took a few seconds.
I would still in future go back to your suggestion to use the meter pop-over and enter the time-signature like you suggested at first which seem to be more consistent with what the music actually suggests.
