Still working on Guitar Transposition Problem

I am still working on a transposition problem. In the attached project there are 2 Full Score layouts: “Full Score” and “Full score Transposed”. As far as I have been able to work it, I have not found any procedure that allows me to represent the guitar part at sounding pitch in the “Transposed” layout and does not affect the (transposed pitch in) any of the other layouts. I have tried “Octave Transpose” and “Override” but am not an expert. Anything I do to the guitar part in one layout seems affect at least
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one other layout. To be clear: I wish the Guitar part on the “Transposed” full score to appear one octave lower without affecting the guitar part in any other layout. Is this possible? If I am missing something, I would humbly ask for a step-by-step “beginners” method to accomplish this task.

Manny,

We’ve been through this.

This is akin to bumping your former thread, which is a disservice to those who read every thread.

Sorry to disrupt. Lilly had recommended a transpose procedure but referred me to the forum because she did not have to go into details. I probably assumed the problem had evolved since I had created a 2nd layout and Lilly had also stepped in. Apologies for any disruptions. I guess I will give up on this as there does not seem to be a solution.

  1. Set the Transposed score to Transposed. It is currently set to Concert Pitch. Nothing you do will affect the display until you do this.
  2. In Setup Mode, right-click on the Transposed score in the right-hand panel and select Clef and Transposition Overrides.
  3. Select Guitar Instrument in the list.
  4. Under the Transposed Pitch column, set Written middle C sounds as: to C4.

Edit: uploaded modified file. It will be saved as v5.1.10, but should work fine under 5.0.

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You don’t have to make your second score layout transposed pitch, if you want it at concert pitch.

The Clef and Transposition Overrides dialog lets you override the transposition for each instrument in either transposed or concert pitch. You also don’t need to override the Transposed pitch in order to access the Concert pitch – they’re totally independent (to clarify an earlier uncertainty in private messages with Manny, when I was away from Dorico).

I think the main issue you had Manny was that you had selected the wrong score layout before you opened the dialog. Part of that might have been due to crossed wires in the documentation, which I am fixing.

It’s absolutely possible to have two full score layouts, both concert pitch, and have the same guitar instrument appear at different octaves in each layout using the Clef and Octave Overrides dialog – without needing to input a clef item manually into the music.

Every time I change the concert transposition of the guitar in my “Full Score Transposed” it changes the transposition in my other layout, called “Full Score”. So far I have not accomplished what you have mentioned Lily. If you, or anyone, can generate a step-by-step method for doing this I would be grateful. It was just a “whim” anyway but I was kind of surprised when I could not accomplish this.
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(sorry) I can see no difference between the two.

You have overridden the sounding pitch transpositions in both layouts to be the same: C3.

I suspect you have confused yourself about which layout you’re viewing. I would recommend opening both layouts simultaneously, using tabs: that way you can quickly flick between the two to check the scope of changes.

Also you still have a manual clef override at the start of the flow, from when you followed earlier advice to use the Properties panel octave shift clef property. If you no longer need it, I’d recommend selecting and deleting it: it will prevent you being able to override clefs using Setup mode layout overrides later if you want.

Here’s your project back with the layouts set up as you want, presumably. I gave the sounding-pitch guitar a bass clef override as well, to tidy up the ledger lines.

To repeat what I did:

  1. Select the clef override in the music.
  2. Press Delete.
  3. Open the Clef and Transposition Overrides dialog for one of the scores.
  4. Deactivate everything, to reset it back to default.
  5. Repeat steps 3-4 for the other score layout.
  6. Open the dialog again, this time absolutely-definitely-100%-certainly for the “transposed” score layout.
  7. At the top, select Guitar.
  8. Activate Clef for first staff.
  9. Ignore the “Transposed pitch” menu: go straight across to the “Concert pitch” column, and activate the top slot (because your score is set to concert pitch, meaning that’s the view that will display changes in this dialog; the “Transposed pitch” column affects the layout when it’s set to transposed pitch).
  10. Select Bass clef from that menu.
  11. At the bottom of the “Transposed pitch” column, activate"Written middle C sounds as", and make sure it’s set to C3 (it should be automatically).
  12. Move across to the equivalent box for “Concert pitch”, and make it C4.
  13. Click OK.

I also hid flow headings, to remove the “1. Flow 1” at the top of the scores. Here’s how to show them again, if you want.

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On a side note, your project was last saved in Dorico 5.0 – there’s a free update available, Dorico 5.1.10 with lots of new features.

Thank-you Lily. It will take me some time to understand the terms in your solution but I will give it a try ASAP. I am posting another problem I have run into with playback of note durations.

Lilly -= Thank-yo for your help. I suspect the “Delete override at the start of the flow” may have been the Clefs tool so I hit delete. I found a video on clef overrides and managed to create your bass clef version which was super helpful. The video demonstrated that I had to actually raise the concert and transposed pitch because…well…my brain can’t fathom it…but it works.
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