Strange problem with condense


as you’ll see on the picture, condense works fine in the bassoon-line. But when it comes to the horns, the breaks in the first horn are quite irritating. I’ve no idea, what’s the problem there. Anyone any idea? It’s nothing connected with the quarter breaks. In galley-view all is fine…

And just because I’m interessted in: why Dorico sometimes notates the instrument-numbers in the labels among themselves and sometimes side by side?
I tried to find a system, but I failed :wink:


Please post a (cut-down) project, not a picture. It may very well be something to do with what’s on the next page or what voices things are in, or how dynamics are grouped and attached.

The position of the numbers in the staff label depends on the condensing at the start of the system. If the parts share a stem the numbers are on the same line. Otherwise they are stacked vertically.

Unfortunately that sometimes gives the strange result in your picture, because Horns 1 and 2 shared a stem on the previous system and the rests at the start of this system also “share a stem”, but the first notes on this system have two independent voices.

Personally I change the engraving option to always stack the numbers vertically. IMO the default option only looks sensible it the condensed format stays the same for several systems, of the whole flow.

Thx@Rob. I think the same. It’s just … confusing. Didn’t know that there is an option for the number-stacking. I’ll try to find it :wink:

@pianoleo Here’s the DL-Link for the dorico project. (very cut-down - the problem still exists …)

I can’t see an easy way around the rests, or exactly why they’re working the way they are, but it’s late at night and it’s thus quite likely I’m overlooking something. Sorry!

No problem @pianoleo, thank you for having a closer look on the file. Meanwhile I found out a strange thing. If I delete the whole horn-section before this phrase (all playing a4) the condensed version shows up correctly. If I wirte a simple a2 quarter in the 1st and 2nd horn the quarter breaks show up again.
Then I figured out that this behaviour has nothing to do with the horns.
I deleted the whole score and wrote the following things: Horns, Trumpets to prove that this is nothing special in the horn and the flute without any a2 before. Magic! It works! But unfortunatelly it’s not the solution of the problem :confused:

You’ll find the corresponding dorico file to this picture in the download link in my last post.

I think the whole bar rest of the flutes (second measure of the stripped-down image) obscures what’s going on. Unlike the other staves, that bar for the flutes actually contains two voices, but a notation option regarding rests causes them to display as one. This mechanism is distinct from condensing, I believe.

With that in mind, the behaviour is more clear. The horn and trumpet staves are amalgamated, i.e. condensed into one voice, up to and including the first quarter rest of the third measure, whereas the flutes are two voices for the entire system.

I try to repruce this problem in a complete new score just to exclude that I did some wrong things whereever.
A) The problem. Start with a2 and have some funny breaks in the 1st voice.
B) The same figure starts immediately after the “wrong” bars - voila! That’s how it should be.
C) Shows that’s not a problem with a new system. But to exclude this, I started a new system with a break. (E)
D) Even in the middle of the system the problem still exists, if I start with an a2 after a break.

So that brings me to my old teacher in composition who always said: “Even breaks are music!” - I think, Dorico assumes the a2 region goes until the two in the after next bar. (E)
Because in (F) I started the bar not with a break but with a note. And the miracle of the correct bar-break is solved.

But even breaks are music - so my question is: follows this engraving standards or is it still a bug?

Sorry - didn’t recognize your post@jester - you said the same like me but shorter :wink:

There’s a whole heap of limitations that can’t technically be described as bugs. They’re expected behaviour because the functionality isn’t yet complete. Do read pages 9-22 of the most recent Version History carefully, because you find that some (if not most) of the limitations you’re running into are described.

Sorry for the wrong word bug. Lets call it: function not implemented yet.
I just wanted to know if I’m doing wrong or if there’s a solution for the problem. I promise I’ll read the version history if I have another problem. But I thought a version history is a document which shows the user whats done and not whats not done. :wink:

Daniel’s previously described Condensing as the hardest conundrum he’s ever tackled, at any software company (or words to that effect). Presumably writing down the feature’s limitations was easier, on a deadline, than ironing out the kinks in the code. (Daniel, if you’re reading this, it’s not meant as a criticism!)

Don’t misunderstood me. I didn’t want ot make fun about of this. I really, really love the condensing feature. It’s fantastic and despite small problems like this one a huge timesaver. I can imagine that there is incredible complex work to do with condensing. I just want to know if the fault is on my side. And really thanks for the advice with the version history. I’ll read it :wink:

Knowing this I helped myself with a invisible placeholder-text for the whole-bar break in the first horn.