Switching between page view and galley view or between Write mode and Engrave mode is very buggy

Hi, as I have been putting the finishing touches on my orchestral score, I find myself going back and forth between Engrave mode and Write mode a lot, and since I am using the condensing feature, also have to go back and forth between the Galley and Page views to make edits.

I have noticed that, about 80% of the times, camera jumps to a random place in score or to the very beginning despite have a note / section selected in the score. And frankly, it should keep the same position even if there is nothing selected when making the switch between all these modes. So I waste several seconds to find where I was in the score to continue my work.
I have experienced this bug first hand since Dorico 2 and have seen many reports of it over the years but here we are at Dorico 5.1 and it still exists and is a major productivity issue.

I am just hoping that this report on my end will also count toward many other reports of this bug in hope of it becoming a higher priority to be fixed in the next update.

Thanks for all of your hard work regardless and I still love Dorico :slight_smile:

Dorico 5.1.32.2114
macOS Sonoma 14.2.1

3 Likes

This doesn’t help with the time it takes to switch views, but you can always hit “P” and then “P” again to start and stop playback from the selected item, which will refocus the screen on your selected spot.

3 Likes

Hi.
Just in case you are not aware of it: there is a “center selection” shortcut that you probably should add to your arsenal. It’s especially useful for the situation you describe :wink:

2 Likes

This shouldn’t happen and it drives me nuts - and wastes time and breaks concentration. I do wish the Dorico team would take a look at this. Do they not experience this?

If there is a selection, then Dorico will bring it into view when you switch modes and/or view type. But if there’s no selection, then it’s very difficult to maintain the view position, because the way the music appears can be radically different if the view type is different: the zoom level can be different, meaning that a totally different amount of music might fit on the screen, and you might be orientating yourself through something that appears in one part of the screen, but at a different zoom level, that might not fit on the screen, if Dorico is using (say) the centre of the old view to determine the position of the new view; if the view type is different, then the way the music is disposed across staves can be very different as well (indeed, as the original poster describes, music that is condensed in page view will be on separate staves in galley view).

Although it’s typically not a good idea to have multiple windows open onto the same project when working on large-scale pieces, perhaps in this instance keeping one window in Write mode in galley view and another in Engrave mode would be more efficient, as switching between the open windows only takes a moment, and if you have a selection, assigning a key command to the Center selection command as suggested by Marc should help you to move to the right place quickly.

1 Like

+1
Using “flows” this happens all the time, and with the same zoom in write and engrave. Indeed it would be nice if there could be an improvement.
A small gif created quickly to illustrate
switch_same_zoom
[ EDIT after test] The Center selection solution does not do the job in my case with flows

1 Like

@dspreadbury thanks for the response. Unfortunately, the bug is also present when there is a selection made. Many times it jumps to a completely irrelevant part of the score, far from the selection, or to the very beginning of the flow.

Another bug I missed to mention in my original post is that, after changing mode between engrave/write or between galley and page view, when I change the zoom level (I do that with my MacBook trackpad gestures), sometimes camera suddenly jumps to the beginning of the score (or some other part).

I understand that it is hard to determine what page it should be on when switching back to page view from galley view, but why does this issue happen when switching between Engrave and Write modes when both are in page view? That further supports that this is more of a bug than limitation.

Additionally, other heuristics can be used to determine what page show be in focus when switching back to page view from galley view. For example, change the focus to the page that holds the first visible measure (left-most measure) on screen in galley view, or the page that holds the most number of the measures on the screen in the galley view. And for zoom level, a default behavior like framing the page onto the screen would be better than an unpredictable behavior. Worst case, one can quickly change the zoom level which is far faster than having to find your place back on the score. Any of these or other possible guesstimates, while may not be perfect, would be far better than jumping to the very beginning.

Lastly, the multiple windows would be great but unfortunately, most of the composing I do is done on the single screen of my MacBook Pro, and when using condensing, the performance for editing is already not great on a single window, so I can’t imagine how it would be on two different windows.

If you can provide one or two reproducible cases where switching mode where both Write and Engrave mode are in page view and Dorico still moves the view, I’ll be happy to look into them. To help us troubleshoot these kinds of problems, we generally require both the project file (along with detailed steps of what to select, in what layout, in what mode, and what to do next to trigger the problem) and screenshots of your whole display (so we can see display scaling, which panels you have open, what zoom level you are using, how large the Dorico window is relative to the overall display, etc.) both before and after the switch of mode.

The only case I am aware of where switching mode in page view can trigger this problem is if you are using one of the “fit…” zoom levels, because the geometry of the view will be different between Write and Engrave modes, so the zoom level has to be recalculated when switching mode, and if there’s no selection, this can cause Dorico to bring a different page into view.

@dspreadbury
At beginning of a project everything is ok, but when the project becomes buggy, a lot of things become strange and the program go to other place , for example: a delete then undo like in this exemple:
delete_and restore_buggy

@dspreadbury
Thanks for your proposition
As soon as I have a little time, I will send a project with a compilation inside all the examples of what it does that I no longer want to use the flows to make education worksheets (I think that you will understand some of them). Is it possible to send you everything privately in order to avoid long controversies in a language that is not mine and also not to tickle the syndrome helper and have posts that go in all directions because several problems in one same post.
But if that doesn’t suit you, I would understand because surely you don’t have the time?! if this is the case tell me so I don’t waste time concocting all this either
Best regards

Sianakr2009 said: “@dspreadbury thanks for the response. Unfortunately, the bug is also present when there is a selection made. Many times it jumps to a completely irrelevant part of the score, far from the selection, or to the very beginning of the flow.”

I’ll admit that I’m still on version 4 of Dorico and that this may have been fixed since then, but I have to agree with the above quote. It does happen whether or not a selection is made and it is totally unpredictable and un-reproducible.

On occasion when I switch from Write to Engrave or vice versa, when I finally do find the place I was working, the selection is still made! So I know I didn’t just forget to make it.

1 Like

I believe this is a bug too, because sometimes it flips right back to start of the flow dozens of pages away, and sometimes just a couple of pages, forward or backward, with no apparent rhyme or reason, and it does not appear to have any discernible correlation with selected object, and happens when no object selected as well.

I run Windows 11 Insider Preview with a 34 inch MSI Prestige Creator screen.

I wonder if Dorico does not like 5K screens that wide.

So I ask again, why don’t the developers see this? Why are end users seeing it? The evidence is mounting that this is real. Strange.

Some time ago @dspreadbury advised me to set zoom to 201%. This no longer works, and it was a very tedious workaround.

1 Like

@dspreadbury is there a private way of sending you the projects? My piece is a finished piece and ideally would not like to share the files on a public forum.

@Andro

So I ask again, why don’t the developers see this? Why are end users seeing it? The evidence is mounting that this is real. Strange

In my experience, these issues start happening more and more as projects grow in complexity, like multiple flow orchestral works.
Hopefully the developers can have some tests for these more complex scenarios to reproduce and catch these issues on their end.

1 Like

I don’t think! I tried with different screens! and often with smaller the UI has also bug ?!
when selecting of flow sometimes I must put under 75% to have the possibilities to choose because out of screen:

And sometimes in other project with same zoom level (81%) I can:

And Yes

You can click on dspreadbury icon or name, and click on the blue Message button. So you will send a private message only to him.

This happens to me in projects that are only 6 pages long, and 4 staves high, as well as in much larger works (both directions).

Anybody who has a reproducible case of the problem is very welcome to provide me with the necessary information for me to reproduce it. I will repeat again that we can only investigate problems that we can reproduce. Making posts here that amount to nothing more than “me too” doesn’t help anybody, I’m afraid to say.

If you want me to investigate the problem, you need to provide some specific information:

  • A project file.
  • Information about what steps to take in order to reproduce the problem you are seeing.
  • A screenshot of your whole display in the “before” state, i.e. before you make whatever edit that causes the score to move unexpectedly.
  • A screenshot of your whole display in the “after” state, i.e. after you have made the edit that causes the score to move unexpectedly.

With regard to the second item on the above list, this information should be in the form of a list of steps, and describe which layout, flow, instrument, bar, zoom level, view type etc. should be in use.

For bonus points, include a screen capture (again, of your whole display, not of just a tiny portion of a single window) of you following the steps you have described.

You don’t have to post this material here, you can send it to me via private message here on the forum, or via email. You can email me at d dot spreadbury at steinberg dot de. If you are sending large files, please consider using a file sharing service like WeTransfer.com, instead of making huge email attachments.

In specific response to @Dup, the issues you will be seeing will have a separate cause: if you are using page layouts where you have layout-specific music frames, and you are manually managing where flows appear in your layouts, and especially if the same flow appears multiple times in the same layout, then Dorico is much more likely to lose track of where you are when you switch between e.g. galley view and page view. There is a fundamental limitation in how clever Dorico can be in this situation, because when you switch between Write and Engrave modes, Dorico cannot retain the information about which specific instance of the flow your selection is in, so it cannot restore the position properly.

So I’m sorry to say that I am not so interested in cases where you have manually created complex layouts of music and text frames, at least not at the moment, since there is a fundamental limitation that prevents us from solving these cases satisfactorily.