Switching to Wavelab (from Adobe Audition)

[audiosampling]

Hello Everyone!

I am new to this forum, and also to Wavelab. My first post here. My name is Stéphane Pigeon, and I am the engineer running myNoise dot net.

It was long overdue for me to quit the Adobe Audio system, but finding a tool that replaces Audition turns out to be so much harder than I thought.

I have a workflow where I would have 10 audio files to edit individually, but I need to preview them all mixed on top of each other, to hear them in context (if you go to myNoise you will hear why). So, Adobe Audition makes it very straightforward to switch from Session view to the Audio Editor, and the changes made in the Audio Editor are directly reflected in the Session view.

From all my attempts in finding a good alternative (Acoustica, Reaper, iZotope RX, Audacity, Ocenaudio, …) none came as close as Wavelab. With Montage being the equivalent to Audition Sessions.

However, I have a couple of frustrations.

The smaller one: why is there no track level in Montage? It seems such a basic expectation, but it is missing. Setting the levels as a curve on each clip feels a bit tedious.

The bigger one: in Audition, in the Audio Editor, I would make a selection and directly apply a VST plugin to affect only that area. I naturally expected that the PROCESS tab in Wavelab would allow me to do that too. Unfortunately, this is not possible. To do that, I have to use the Master Track, insert effects there, and render in the file’s selection, and then remove the effects from the Master Track (otherwise, they keep being applied to the whole track). This is my major disappointment. What could be done in a couple of clicks, becomes a tedious process.

Otherwise, Wavelab was the best Adobe Audition replacement for my workflow.

I am wondering why not many people are complaining about this. Am I missing something about the Wavelab workflow? Doesn’t it make sense to use a VST in the process tab, especially if the tab allows you to call an external processor? Why not add something as simple as a VST?

Thank you for helping me understand Wavelab better. I am so close to loving it…

[PG1]

@audiosampling

why is there no track level in Montage?

There is: look at the inspector window in the track tab.

@audiosampling

The bigger one: in Audition, in the Audio Editor, I would make a selection and directly apply a VST plugin to affect only that area. I naturally expected that the PROCESS tab in Wavelab would allow me to do that too. Unfortunately, this is not possible. To do that, I have to use the Master Track, insert effects there, and render in the file’s selection, and then remove the effects from the Master Track (otherwise, they keep being applied to the whole track). This is my major disappointment. What could be done in a couple of clicks, becomes a tedious process.

There is a simpler solution…
Select the audio you want to process.
Then call one of these functions.
Do your processing there, and save.
That’s it.

[audiosampling]

Thanks for such a swift answer. I didn’t have the Inspector Window displayed. Now I see the track level slider! Great!

As for your answer to my second question, when I open the Waveform Editor on selection, still, to apply any VST plug-in effect, I will need to insert the plug-in in the Master Section, then Alt+A to render and Cmd+S to save… and when I come back to the Montage, I still have the VST plug-in inserted in the Master Section, affecting all my tracks. I guess I am doing something wrong, because it is so frustrating.

In Audition, in order to add an effect to a given section, I would assign a key shortcut to a given plug-in, make a selection, invoke the shortcut, hit enter, and voilà.

[Marker]

There is an option bypass master section after plugin processing. May be PG can add reset master section feature below bypass in the future.

[PG1]

@audiosampling

and when I come back to the Montage, I still have the VST plug-in inserted in the Master Section

Master section bypass can be set per tab. In your case, click on this button for the master section, and the montage won’t be affected.

[PG1]

Note that for your workflow, this button could be useful.

[audiosampling]

Yes, I am already rendering in place. And yes, making the Montage bypass the Master Section will work as a workaround. Thank you for suggestion that.

Still, I think it would be fantastic if we could have a VST/AU Plug-In section in the PROCESS menu, similar to the option that already exists for external processing. This could help many people deciding to transitioning from Audition.

I know there is a Bypass Master Section option after the Render in Place. But for people like me, it might be more convenient to have a “Remove Master Effects” as well.

[PG1]

@audiosampling

Still, I think it would be fantastic if we could have a VST/AU Plug-In section in the PROCESS menu, similar to the option that already exists for external processing. This could help many people deciding to transitioning from Audition.

I don’t know what your edits are about. But usually, processing is done like this:
Create a clip from your audio selection. Then add VST plugin(s) to that clip. In that case, you have real-time effects that you can adjust anytime.

[audiosampling]

Though this will work, it involves more steps than through a dedicated PROCESS plug-in option, especially if, in the end, the user is interested in destructively altering the original file (as I do). Also, it requires being in Montage mode. While using a dedicated PROCESS plug-in alternative, would work directly from the Audio Editor, and commit the changes directly into the file.

But I appreciate your nice workaround suggestions. They will work, and I can adapt my workflow around these. But these won’t be as fast and direct than a in-line commit/process.

[PG1]

There is yet another solution. Open the audio file hosted by clip. You can do that from the clip itself. Then do your processing there, save, and it’s done.

[audiosampling]

Open the file with? (An external editor?)

[PG1]

No. There are several ways, but one of them is this one. If there is a selection inside the clip, this selection is reflected in the audio editor too.

[audiosampling]

Yes, when I edit the source I can see the section highlighted. But then, we are back again to the beginning of the discussion. There is no way to simply PROCESS that section with a VST plug-in, destructively. I have to insert the plug-ins in the master bus first, then render, and then remove the plug-ins from the Master Bus (or bypass it).

I appreciate your kind help and suggestions for workarounds. They all allow me to achieve what I want to do, but in more steps than actually needed.

Phrased differently, I guess my question is: why is the PROCESS section offering an “External Tool” button, but missing a “Effects Plug-In” button?

You may answer that you can insert plug-ins in the master bus. Yes, but unfortunately, it is not quite the same.

[Marker]

Certain software does, in fact, provide in-place processing straight from a different menu. In WaveLab, this functionality has traditionally been handled through the master section plugin chain.

I wish WaveLab used the menu approach, like most DAWs, where processes are organized more clearly. For example - Tools - Batch Processor, Batch Rename, etc.

If PG is planning to add reset master section to render - options, then according to the design of WL, this will work only if the master section is docked.

If this feature were introduced to WaveLab, it would also need to follow the OK, Cancel, Apply workflow.

[audiosampling]

A short video is better than a long text. Yes, that is exactly what I am looking for. Most Audio Editors do this just like that. Some editors refine this with a short crossfade to avoid abrupt transitions—but this would not even be needed with WaveLab, as the Effect Morphing can be invoked for this. Actually, Effect Morphing itself calls for implementing an in-place processing functionality, because both would represent such a powerful tandem in series (and would result in substantial time saving in my workflow).

[PG1]

@audiosampling

Phrased differently, I guess my question is: why is the PROCESS section offering an “External Tool” button, but missing a “Effects Plug-In” button?

Because when it comes to VST processing, everybody is using real-time VST effects (as clip effects) thanks to the advantages they bring (like real-time tweaking and preview of settings). In other words, offline processing, while still possible (as I have described), is not the workflow that is prioritized.

[audiosampling]

@PG1

Because when it comes to VST processing, everybody is using real-time VST effects (as clip effects) thanks to the advantages they bring

In-place processing has its advantages. Basically, it trades flexibility (you have to know what you want to achieve) - for increased speed in the workflow.

Maybe everybody is using the clip effects because there is no real alternative offered. In absence of an in-place processing, 100% of the users will have to use the Master Bus, or clip properties, that is true indeed.

This didn’t prevent me to purchase a license to WaveLab, but please, give the idea a second thought. I am sure that if you poll users, you will realize I am not the only one interested. Thank you.

[Marker]

There are a few advantages to this

1. As long as the apply/process button does not close the plugin window, users can have a plugin or a number of plugins open in the audio editor and process as they want to. That means, the OK button will have to close the process window.

2. Users can retain their plugin chain in the master section and also process files with plugins in the Audio Editor. For example, if Master Section has De Click, and De Noise, users can launch a Hi Pass separate and process in place.
3. Users can avoid changing master section presets frequently

The disadvantages may be

1. There is no real time preview as in Master Section. It will be good for plugins like Hi-Pass, Lo- Pass etc.
2. If this is implemented without preview, users will request for preview, all of this could possibly cause overload.

[audiosampling]

Without preview, the function will be hard to use.

However, if clips can have their own effects in the Montage view, and the in-place function is only available in the Sample Editor, technically devs could treat what’s open in the Editor as a single hidden clip. The difference would be that the effect inserted into this pseudo-editor clip would only last while the plug-in window is open. When the plug-in windows closes, the plug-in is removed from the pseudo-editor clip. And when the user clicks the process button, the effect is rendered in place.

So, if clips in Montage can have effects assigned, then audio in the Audio Editor could have the same capability under the hood. This could serve as the fx engine behind the “process-in-place” function.

[Marker]

@audiosampling

The difference would be that the effect inserted into this pseudo-editor clip would only last while the plug-in window is open. When the plug-in windows closes, the plug-in is removed from the pseudo-editor clip. And when the user clicks the process button, the effect is rendered in place.

I do not think that is how processing work in the Audio Editor. What you are asking is the plugin behaving as an fx in the master section when launched separate in the audio editor. Or maybe I did not understand your quote completely.

For example, when a Normalize process is applied, WL Normalize only after user clicks on the apply button.

For convenience relating to cases like these, PG can also think of separating the FX chain (docking/floating) from master section and bringing it back when required.

For the time being you can consider reducing your master section to make it look like a floating FX rack as in the picture below.