Technics SX-PR804 midi input to Dorico 3.5 Pro

Dorico
1

Hi - I have a Technics SX-PR804 connected to my computer (running Windows 10) that Dorico 3.5 says it is connected successfully. The midi tool Protokol also acknowledges successful midi output from my Technics. However Steinberg technical support says the midi being received by Dorico is “invalid”.

Does anyone have any suggestions?
Its very frustrating as my Technics works well with other software.

If not… my only recourse is to purchase a small midi keyboard (with full sized keys) to balance on top of my Technics for input to Dorico. Would a Casio CT-S100 be suitable? Any other suggestions? (NB. I live in the UK).

2

Hi Jane, welcome to the forum.

At first sight I see no reason why your Technics keyboard should not work with Dorico.
So it appears in Dorico in the list of recognized MIDI input devices, right?
If you play on the Technics, does in the right bottom corner of the Dorico window a green icon flash with every note played on the keyboard?
Also, please do ‘Help > Create Diagnostics Report’ and attach the corresponding zip file here. Thanks

3

Hi Ulf,

Thank you very much for your reply.

Yes, my Technics appears in the Dorico list of recognised MIDI input devices, and I get a green flash icon with any note pressed on the Technics keyboard.

I’ve followed all the instructions in the Dorico Youtube “get started” video.

I’ve purchased a new USB cable and tried different USB ports just in case.

The Protokol log is just a simple scale of C major, starting from middle C with the right hand for 2 octaves.

(If you have access to the Steinberg support site, my ID ticket is #386589)

I’m stumped as to what the problem can be?

Best regards,

Jane

(Attachment Protokol log 24 March 2021 is missing)

Dorico Diagnostics.zip (430 KB)

4

Hi Jane,
unfortunately i don’t have access to the ticketing system.
Somehow the protocol is missing as attachment. Can you please try again? Maybe first zip it up.

But I really wonder, because if the green icon comes on, that means the data is arriving in Dorico. Someone from the London team needs to clarify what could go wrong there.
I’m sure that the Technics adhere’s to the MIDI standard, everything else would completely puzzle me.

5

Jane, are you definitely selecting a note or rest and typing Shift+N to show the orange note input caret before you play notes on your keyboard? Dorico won’t input anything unless the caret is showing.

6

Hi Ulf,

I’ve zipped it as you suggested, hopefully you will receive it this time.

I thought the green light was a good sign too, so was rather disappointed by the verdict of “invalid data”.

Daniel has responded too suggesting I try SHIFT + N before inputting. I had “selected” the stave I

wanted to input to before pressing record as per the video instructions, but not SHIFT + N.

I’ve just tried this – diagnostics attached. Still no inputted notes (this attempted was

another simple scale of C major in the right hand).

Best regards,

Jane

Protokol log 24 March 2021.zip (844 Bytes)

Dorico Diagnostics.zip (339 KB)

7

Hi Daniel,

Previously I had selected the stave as per the instruction video – the rest in the first bar turned orange.

This time I used SHIFT+N as per your suggestion and the orange note input caret appeared.

I pressed record and played a simple C major scale with the right hand.

Diagnostics attached, still no notes appearing on my score.

I feel this must be my fault but don’t know what I am doing wrong; it’s so frustrating!

Best regards,

Jane

Dorico Diagnostics.zip (339 KB)

8

The protocol indeed looks strange. The Technics is only sending note-on commands but never note-offs.
In order to better compare, would you mind running MIDI-Ox (http://www.midiox.com/)? It’s also a tool for monitoring MIDI data.
So please run that, go to ‘Options > MIDI Device’ and select your Technics, then in the MIDI-Ox window all the output from the Technics shall appear. Play a few notes on your keyboard and in the MIDI-Ox output window do a right click and choose Copy All and paste here. Thanks

I read online the manual of your Technics but could not find any MIDI-setting that could be responsible for the strange behaviour.

9

Dear Ulf,

Please find attached a file showing the steps I took to produce Midi-Ox results

(I’ve included screen shots just in case I selected the wrong options and mislead you).

In the Technics manual page 134 (Computer Connection), mine is set to “Normal”.

All my Technics settings are factory settings; I haven’t changed anything.

Thank you very much for your help – even if I can’t get this working, I shall have learnt

a lot in the process!

Best regards,

Jane

(Attachment Midi-Ox test.docx is missing)

10

Dear Ulf,

Please find attached a file showing the steps I took to produce Midi-Ox results

(I’ve included screen shots just in case I selected the wrong options and mislead you).

In the Technics manual page 134 (Computer Connection), mine is set to “Normal”.

All my Technics settings are factory settings; I haven’t changed anything.

Thank you very much for your help – even if I can’t get this working, I shall have learnt

a lot in the process!

Best regards,

Jane

Midi-Ox test.zip (553 KB)

11

Thanks for the data, Jane.

Well, that what your Technics sends is not invalid, it just does not make any sense.
Have a look at this one example: 90 3C 00 1 C 4 Note Off
The first byte (90) is the upcode for a note-on command and the next is the key number (3C ->C 4). The third byte specifies the velocity and in your case it is always zero, no matter what key you hit.
Now, normally there is also a dedicated note-off command, but it is not uncommon for keyboards to send a note-on with zero velocity instead of a note-off. Problem with your keyboard is, no matter what, velocity is always zero and therefore also Dorico does not do anything with it. Why should it record something when it only receives note-off commands?
When you play your Technics keyboard, does the local sound of it react to key velocity?
I dare say, something is wrong with your Technics. If I were you, I’d try to reset it and bring it back to the factory state (see page 120 of the keyboard’s manual).

12

Dear Ulf,

  • When you play your Technics keyboard, does the local sound of it react to key velocity?

Does my Technics respond immediately to a key press – yes, it does. There is no delay.

Does it respond to key pressure – yes, the sound produced is either louder or softer.

I’ve actioned the factory reset and run Midi-Ox again with a simple rising C major scale (1 octave, right hand from middle C).

TIMESTAMP IN PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT

Opened MIDI Input

Opened MIDI Output

000014B1 1 2 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

000014B1 1 3 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

000014B1 1 2 90 3C 00 1 C 4 Note Off

000014B1 1 3 90 3C 00 1 C 4 Note Off

000014B1 1 2 90 51 00 1 A 5 Note Off

000014B1 1 3 90 51 00 1 A 5 Note Off

00001770 1 2 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

00001770 1 3 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

00001770 1 2 90 3E 00 1 D 4 Note Off

00001770 1 3 90 3E 00 1 D 4 Note Off

00001770 1 2 90 4C 00 1 E 5 Note Off

00001770 1 3 90 4C 00 1 E 5 Note Off

000017AF 1 2 90 3C 00 1 C 4 Note Off

000017AF 1 3 90 3C 00 1 C 4 Note Off

000017AF 1 2 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

000017AF 1 3 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

00001A3F 1 2 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

00001A3F 1 3 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

00001A4E 1 2 90 40 00 1 E 4 Note Off

00001A4E 1 3 90 40 00 1 E 4 Note Off

00001A4E 1 2 90 50 00 1 G# 5 Note Off

00001A4E 1 3 90 50 00 1 G# 5 Note Off

00001A5E 1 2 90 3E 00 1 D 4 Note Off

00001A5E 1 3 90 3E 00 1 D 4 Note Off

00001A5E 1 2 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

00001A5E 1 3 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

00001CFE 1 2 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

00001CFE 1 3 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

00001CFE 1 2 90 41 00 1 F 4 Note Off

00001CFE 1 3 90 41 00 1 F 4 Note Off

00001CFE 1 2 90 52 00 1 Bb 5 Note Off

00001CFE 1 3 90 52 00 1 Bb 5 Note Off

00001CFE 1 2 90 40 00 1 E 4 Note Off

00001CFE 1 3 90 40 00 1 E 4 Note Off

00001CFE 1 2 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

00001CFE 1 3 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

00001FBD 1 2 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

00001FBD 1 3 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

00001FBD 1 2 90 43 00 1 G 4 Note Off

00001FBD 1 3 90 43 00 1 G 4 Note Off

00001FBD 1 2 90 51 00 1 A 5 Note Off

00001FBD 1 3 90 51 00 1 A 5 Note Off

00001FEC 1 2 90 41 00 1 F 4 Note Off

00001FEC 1 3 90 41 00 1 F 4 Note Off

00001FEC 1 2 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

00001FEC 1 3 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

0000224E 1 2 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

0000224E 1 3 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

0000225D 1 2 90 45 00 1 A 4 Note Off

0000225D 1 3 90 45 00 1 A 4 Note Off

0000225D 1 2 90 57 00 1 Eb 6 Note Off

0000225D 1 3 90 57 00 1 Eb 6 Note Off

0000227C 1 2 90 43 00 1 G 4 Note Off

0000227C 1 3 90 43 00 1 G 4 Note Off

0000227C 1 2 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

0000227C 1 3 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

000024FD 1 2 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

000024FD 1 3 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

0000250D 1 2 90 47 00 1 B 4 Note Off

0000250D 1 3 90 47 00 1 B 4 Note Off

0000250D 1 2 90 5D 00 1 A 6 Note Off

0000250D 1 3 90 5D 00 1 A 6 Note Off

0000251C 1 2 90 45 00 1 A 4 Note Off

0000251C 1 3 90 45 00 1 A 4 Note Off

0000251C 1 2 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

0000251C 1 3 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

000027AD 1 2 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

000027AD 1 3 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

000027AD 1 2 90 48 00 1 C 5 Note Off

000027AD 1 3 90 48 00 1 C 5 Note Off

000027AD 1 2 90 60 00 1 C 7 Note Off

000027AD 1 3 90 60 00 1 C 7 Note Off

000027DC 1 2 90 47 00 1 B 4 Note Off

000027DC 1 3 90 47 00 1 B 4 Note Off

000027EB 1 2 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

000027EB 1 3 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

000029C0 1 2 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

000029C0 1 3 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

000029C0 1 2 90 48 00 1 C 5 Note Off

000029C0 1 3 90 48 00 1 C 5 Note Off

000029C0 1 2 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

000029C0 1 3 90 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off

I’m guessing these results are no better?

If not… I’d better purchase a small midi keyboard (with full sized keys) to balance on top of my Technics for input to Dorico.

Would a Casio CT-S100 be suitable?

(Do I need a keyboard with speakers to hear what I am inputting to Dorico?)

Any other suggestions for a suitable UK purchase?

Best regards,

Jane

13

It might be worth emailing Technics and see if they can shed some light on the problem.

14

Hi Jane, that’s right, it’s still the same, all notes come with velocity zero, so just note-offs.

As Benwiggy suggests, it might be worth contacting Technics support on this, as clearly something is not working properly there.

If you don’t want to bother and rather buy something else, sure, anything that spits out MIDI is fine. You can even get a pure MIDI-keyboard without any sound generator or speakers, but that CASIO would also do the job. Here’s a dealer with a big variety of keyboards: MIDI Master Keyboards – Thomann UK

15

A quick Google indicates this may be a driver issue. See SX-PR804 Software | Technics Discussion | Synth Zone Forums for instance.

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I’d recommend Gear4music over Thomann these days, where U.K. customers are concerned. The dreaded B word has resulted in a VAT situation that makes cross-border trade nightmarish for those of us in the U.K.

17

Dear Ulf,

This is probably a stupid question (but as I haven’t yet managed to input anything into Dorico I’m uncertain).

If I purchase a pure Midi-keyboard without any speakers …. how will I hear the notes I am inputting to Dorico?

(Do my computer speakers automatically play to me any note inputted from a speaker-less midi keyboard?)

Best regards,

Jane

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All the notes that you feed in via MIDI will also be played by Dorico’s audio engine that is also used during normal playback in Dorico.

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Dear Benwiggy and Pianoleo,

I’ve tried the drivers supplied with the Technics, but they won’t load (not even using the compatibility option).

Windows 10 supplied a default driver which registered the instrument on Device Manager, which is the interface I’ve been using.

I didn’t think Technics existed anymore – but have now found “Technics Music Service by CA-Software”.

I will try asking for an updated driver before throwing in the towel!

Many thanks to everyone for your interest and help.

I’ll update this thread hopefully with a reply from Technics.

Jane

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Technics is still very much a ‘going concern’, as a part of Panasonic. Googling “Technics Support” brings their UK website for me.