Text frame format propagates L to R and R to L in Master Page

Using 2.2.20

The propagation of the text frame format L->R is NOT desirable (top left and top right page numbers, for example) and I don’t recall it happening before 2.2.20.

Example:

  1. Open the Master Page in Engrave mode and put in a text field.
  2. Enter text – it’s flush left by default
  3. Propagate L->R
  4. Go to R page and move text frame – text is still flush left, as expected
  5. Next edit text format to flush right (like for left- vs right-hand pages)
    …wait for it…
  6. The text on the L page immediately changes to flush right (not good for page numbers!)
  7. And R to L does the same.

The work-around is to simply create a new frame on the right, which can lead to R-L differences because copying frames is difficult.

Related comment: The frame size/location indicators are different for different frames. For example, some say Left, Top, Right, Bottom, but Width and Height are blank. Others give you Top, Right, Width, Height. Could these be linked so any number can be changed? For large frames, the former may be useful, but for most usages, the latter is MUCH easier. In my example of trying to duplicate the page number frame, it’s not very efficient to calculate and enter 162.99 and 243.23 mm! :slight_smile:

Finally, I saw in a video that one can select an entire frame (so it can be moved) using keyboard shortcuts, but I can’t recall how it was done nor can I find the video (the many, many videos deserve an index!).

Thanks!

Ed

This has been like this since v1.0. If you want to break the link, delete one of the frames and recreate it. Simple as that.
Note that in the default master pages, the page number is in a header that spans the full width of the page. The “Page Number” font style is set to display on the outside edge of the page, meaning that if you’re using that font style in a full width text frame there’s no problem with the frame being propagated from Left to Right (or vice-versa).

Related comment: The frame size/location indicators are different for different frames. For example, some say Left, Top, Right, Bottom, but Width and Height are blank. Others give you Top, Right, Width, Height. Could these be linked so any number can be changed? For large frames, the former may be useful, but for most usages, the latter is MUCH easier. In my example of trying to duplicate the page number frame, it’s not very efficient to calculate and enter 162.99 and 243.23 mm! > :slight_smile:

This one’s entirely up to you. Use the padlocks at the top of the left panel to anchor the frame to the edges of the page. You can anchor to all four edges (meaning you have to calculate distances from the edges) or you can anchor to only two or three edges (meaning you get to use the height/width fields).

Finally, I saw in a video that one can select an entire frame (so it can be moved) using keyboard shortcuts, but I can’t recall how it was done nor can I find the video (the many, many videos deserve an index!).

I have no idea which video it was. Just select an edge of a frame - not a handle - then use Alt+arrow keys (or Ctrl/Cmd+Alt+Arrow keys for bigger distances).

Thanks, pianoleo!

I hadn’t run into the little locks in my Dorico learning. Good to know! I still think that making all of the measurement frames available for entry is available in many other apps and should be a no-brainer. Also, I discovered that I had set default text for the page numbers instead of specifying the page number text. Works great!

I found the keyboard frame handle selection in the manual
https://steinberg.help/dorico/v2/en/dorico/topics/engrave_mode/engrave_mode_text_frames_r.html
You select a frame using the arrow keys, then press Tab. The arrow keys now let you select individual handles. Press Tab again, and the entire frame is selected. It’s no doubt buried in one of the training videos. Thanks for reminding me of the shortcuts to move frames.

Cheers!

Ed

Strange. This is not true for me. On my Master Page sets (Full Score and Part Layouts) I have a little text frame on the left on the left page and a little text frame on the right for the right page which contain the page numbers. When I copy from L to R, the text frame on the right side moves to the left side (the wrong side …).
Is there a difference in the Master page sets depending on the language you are using? (I use the German version).

I am on Dorico 2.2.20 (Windows).

Leo is saying that the page number text frame spans the entire width, and the text alignment is what can be mirrored. You’re talking about two different text frames.

Here ist what my default master page looks like. i don’t have page number text frames, that span the entire width. I just have small boxes either on the left or the right side.

Page Numbers do have a special format. If you select one of them in the Master Page Editor, you will notice their own font format:


Actually you’re both right, and I’m wrong. By default, page numbers are indeed in separate frames, one for the left page and one for the right. My mistake. The Page Number font can cleverly align with the outside of the page, though.

As I said in an earlier thread, I really would appreciate if a possibility to mirror from left to right or vice versa would be added (perhaps by holding down “Alt” when pressing the copy button or something like that).
Or that Dorico would mirror by default, when the page layout is set to “mirrored”.

HeiPet, sorry for jumping in again, the way it is handled at the moment is perfect for 99% of the cases.
The remaining 1% might be willing to adjust their frames manually.
Doricos beauty lies in simplicity also. Let us not over-complicate it.
Just my pinch of salt…

99% of YOUR cases …

I always use a mirrored page setup and for ME Dorico’s handling of frames is not ideal in this regard.

HeiPet,
I leave the Masterpage Layout at the default settings most of the time - and I guess at least 98 other users keep it that way, too :wink:

Can you describe some of the scenarios that you use for mirrored layouts? Besides page numbers in the top corners. Just curious.

We normally use ring binding for our publications and therfore need more space on the inside of the page margins.

But margins are controlled in Layout Options, not in the Master Pages…

That’s normally true, but I have to control the page margins with the frames on master pages, because I have to be able place some text outside the page margins (remarks for the printing house, where to place and to cut off fold out pages). Therefore I set the Page margins in the Layout options to zero and adjust the frames in the master pages. Not the normal way, but the best workaround I found so far.
Other use cases are text objects, which could be placed on the outside (or inside). I could use text frames, which span the whole wide of the layout, but than I end up with a lot of frames on top of each other, which are harder to select and to control.
Perhaps I still think and work too much like I worked with Sibelius, but I think mirrored pages are a common feature for publications and should be supported natively be Dorico (not ony the page margins).

Sorry, pafnooty, it was not my intention to take over your thread. The whole discussion moved away from the original topic …