The ONE thing that would sell me on Nuendo, is editing of Video itself

Agreed

Video editing? Real video editing?

Please NO… a thousand times no!

I edit video in FCPX and Premiere… there’s no way shoehorning that type of workflow into a DAW wouldn’t ruin the DAW and make a crappy video editor.

If video is your bag and you want a decent audio experience then FCPX integrates a little bit of Logic in there, with a path into Logic. [ though I prefer moving to Nuendo or Cubase of course]

For matter give Resolve a try … it’s free… and has everything in there. Not my cup of tea, but you can’t say it’s not a one-stop-shop!

Video editing features in Nuendo?
Please. Not.
The last thing I need is some customer who’s gotten on to the fact that I might be able to ammend a video edit in a picture-locked film I’m mixing. It’s practically ASKING them to take the hand when we’ve offered a finger.
Only the POSSIBILITY of us being able to change editorial decisions and the production companies KNOWING this will open a whole new world of pain for us as well as the editorial staff:
What? The dialogue scene in the park at 13:34 is too long at the end? Oh, we’ll just let the mix guy do it in his studio, no need to book the edit suite for another day… Hey, what’s this? There’s a flash frame at the cut now - how’d that happen? (Maybe because the audio guy doesn’t have a class-1 monitor in his studio that can show interlaced video and why should he?) … Hey, our master file’s just been rejected by QC, they say the MXF container has material with the wrong codec … But we’re airing tomorrow!!! … Aaaaah! … Who’s gonna fix this? … Who’s gonna pay for this??? … and on and on.
I am already suspiciously eyeing Resolve in that respect, thankfully, for now, it’s still a kick-ass CCR tool but still a crap NLE and a crap DAW. Let’s hope it stays that way and never makes it to industry standarddom in either of the latter.

That is something I may need to clarify here for all you Steinberg R&D folks who are surely listening in :wink:
When I asked you some time ago to include a replace audio feature for broadcast op1A files, I explicitly meant ONLY replace audio. I do not EVER in any way want to be able to influence the video content of said file… ^^

As you said, it would never work. On most of the pro-projects, multiple people are working on the same masters. (Editors, VFX, Grading, Composers, Foley, dialog edit, …) Currently it already is a problem to have video’s named, numbered, 2popped, BITC-ed & distributed to all concerned collaborators in a proper way.

For smaller single-person-projects there is Premiere, FCPx and Resolve.
Let’s keep it that way.

Fredo

The idea isn’t aimed at engineers holding commercial audio chairs in commercial audio editing studios where they clock in and out and are there only for one purpose.

I’m not sure a hypothetical “how many bugs would this produce?” is a valid point either because well… let me ask you, specifically, “how many new bugs would this produce? Exact number please”. Maybe it wouldn’t produce any new bugs, or maybe 1, or 2? Or Maybe 100. Still, It’s no reason to not do something potentially inspiring new kinds of workflows.

Why would a customer who locked their own picture ask you to do, it doesn’t make sense. and would you even be working off a full resolution copy of the locked-picture? Anyways, regardless of this feature… You decide what work you want and don’t want to do always… And if someone wanted you to do this? You would turn down the money?

You’re both speaking all this crazy hypotheticals to try and negate an idea, of which doesn’t even have to really do with that field of work…? You guys need to listen to some Brian Eno or something, get a little outside the box.

I have done sound for film and tv over 30 years.
And if something is possible you are asked to do that. So all Heiners points are very much valid.

And so are mine. What you call hypothetical I call experince and wisdom.

Look at how long it took to iron out some fundamental flaws in Nuendo 7. Look at the time it took to deal with certain issues in v8. Still some very strange things going on in 8.3.15 supposedly.

The question is if it is more beneficial for those who can afford to pay for Nuendo and stay up to date (professionals mainly) to have video editing capability rather than have those issues fixed. I think that’s the fundamental question here. And what you need to ask yourself is; What are the odds that even if new bugs aren’t introduced at a higher rate because video editing was added bugs that are ‘normal’ will take longer to fix?

I’ll take bug fixes and improvements and enhancements of post-production specific features over added video stuff any day.





I think you should listen to all the people that chimed in here. I don’t wish to sound dismissive because I don’t really know you personally, but you’re talking to people with literally decades of experience in post production. Like Tumppi said; when something becomes possible clients start asking for it. Let me just give you at least some perspective:

When I started out all my work was done in Pro Tools. The system ran on a beige mac and included a Digidesign sync box that connected to a machine room where Beta decks were located. In the beginning picture was played back from tape in realtime. After a while we started digitizing video from tape (realtime), but we still laid back to tape (realtime again). The point here is that there was virtually zero time to mess with picture edits because changing something meant re-edit in the Avid, export new OMF, create new DigiBeta tape, physically get that tape to audio post, and at that point it’s hours later. If you’re in television this was a no-no. Locked mostly meant locked in those days.

Now fast forward to a few years ago when I started getting requests to send out audio-to-picture for review. No biggie. PT allows me to bounce to video. But then there was bouncing to shorter sections. And eventually people started asking if I could tweak edits that became problematic (i.e. lip-sync issues etc) and finally “Can we adjust color here?”.

So, the question is really a deeper one here; how much different type work do you really want to do in post? Highly skilled professional or “Jack of all trades master of none”? Which ultimately pays most? Which is ultimately most rewarding.

– AND: Are you prepared to not only be responsible for audio being to spec, but also video?

My guess is that you’re actually right about things converging and that there’s a benefit to it to decent size of the market, but the question is if it’s better to add stuff to Nuendo or simply learn how to operate Resolve alongside Nuendo instead. I for one would rather become good at Resolve and very good at Nuendo than having to deal with upcoming issues with video features… and ‘yes’, I’m absolutely being a pessimist about that.

Pop-quiz: It’s February 2019 and we’re on Nuendo v8 - Can we export audio mixdown to picture yet?

The answer should tell you all you need to know about the potential issues of extensive video features.

Umm no, professional video film people who know what they are doing don’t compromise their work to get an audio person to do video work. Maybe if your clientele consists mostly of unknown rappers or hipster artists doing budget music videos or something… But this simply doesn’t happen in film unless you are working with total amateurs which I avoid for reasons other than being asked to do what I don’t do.

Secondly, I’m not asking for full featured video editor. It wouldn’t be possible to do professional video work even if these features were to be included. What type of armature loser would want their professional film exported from an audio program? I wouldn’t even work for that person.

I despise the “decades of experience” point as if it is the end all be all. Like, new sh!t is happening post-your-30-years-experience.

You guys need to look outside the box a little bit, such a boring traditionalist type conversation.

I’m here saying my work and future project and experiments would benefit from this capability, directly. I don’t care about your hypotheticals. The video programs do not have musical workflow. Your hypothetical’s to me just sound so boring and irrelevant. I’m here saying I need this. Plenty of people are doing mixed media visual sound art and working in new ways. The sound is coming before the video.

If you don’t want to edit video, don’t… Or do and take the money? Or tell the client the audio software is not full resolution? Sorry but none of your points have been valid, or rather, don’t invalidate what I’ve assessed and know is needed and there is a gap in the market none of the DAWs have capitalized on.

The answer should tell you all you need to know about the potential issues of extensive video features.

I keep saying "Doesn’t need to have extensive video features just bare basic and you guys keep saying “ALL THE ISSUES THERE WOULD BE IF YOU HAD A DAW WITH EXTENSIVE VIDEO FEATURES:laughing:

Well, you have your points. Fair enough.
But don’t disrespect me or my experience or people I work with.

Sounds to me you can have what you want already. Get resolve. Ditch Nuendo. For me Nuendo is the best one can get if one works with audio post in film and tv.

I do work with professionals in film and tv. And I do know that stupid things are wished when deadline closes. If video editing would be possible it would be used. Simple. Why else would you have it?
And it would lead to difficulties.
Very rarely these days one starts to work with final locked cut.
And then comes the new version. Video editors want to save time and don’t deliver you a new copy but tell you where to cut and so on. You disagree but in the end they save time, you loose time. Then, you make some small mistake making these edits. And resyncing audio to the cut of course repeats that error. Nobody notices this until finally you get the final version from editors. Suddenly your audio and the final cut don’t sync. Then starts searching where error is and who is to blame…

This is what eventually would happen. Ugh!

To me it sounds you are more of a composer type than SD guy. Do you do sound editing and sound design? I do. And while doing it I get very odd questions every now and then. One is: can you edit video? The only right answer is no. Video guys do that. I do sound to a video that I am delivered…

Here’s the problem in a nutshell:

The only way what you appear to be saying above is literally correct is if in the past 30 years “professional video film people” somehow learned to NOT ask for new things that became possible in technology, AND Tumppi either is lying about it being true today OR it somehow just recently changed.

With 30 years experience in the industry it isn’t only about technology, but about human beings. Three decades of working with professionals (hopefully, but not always) gets you insight in how people think and work, at least in that industry.

So you can claim all you want the professionals don’t do this or that, but unless you have his experience I really doubt that you can know this better than he (or the rest of us) can.

Listen to what he’s saying because it isn’t just an old fart spouting nonsense.

If this is boring to you then perhaps you should just post a simple feature request in the appropriate section. Or you can start your own blog or forum and moderate the discussion there to avoid “boring” disagreements.

Either way, I don’t think the rest of us owe you our agreement. If we disagree then we are allowed to state that. If you don’t want a discussion about it then see above.

You’re missing the point. The point is that anything beyond just importing video and rendering/exporting to video is extended relative to that. And if it takes this long to get that functionality to happen along with every other small and big issue in the software then it is likely going to be problems with those new features you’re looking for.


PS: So far we have suggestions for;

_- Splice,

  • Trim,
  • Fade In/Out,
    -Clip Cross fading,
    -Clip Manager.
  • Text overlay and positioning
  • still picture imports
  • not say that this couldn’t potentially be good enough for basic YouTube video
  • the video editor just saves to a software shared project folder with a .XML and then this can instantly be opened in Nuendo and all the same placements, crossfades, etc_

Technically the above isn’t basic I bet…

Seems to me like you are. In your feature wishlist I see everything needed to make a fully featured NLE. The stuff you’ve omitted is what one would file under color correction and compositing. Why not go whole hog and ask for them as well, do go on… :unamused:

Mmh… maybe because it happens ALL THE TIME? If I had a dime for every producer who has come in here and asked me if I can perform “a quick video edit” as well, I’d be in pocket for my next beach holiday.

Most producers can’t tell an op1A from an mp4. And they don’t need to. They have other skill sets that they need fully developed to do their job. Like whittling down production time by asking the audio guy if he can perform video edits. It’s a valid question from their side, which should always be answered with “no” from ours. Which brings me to:

Yes I would. Because aside from the fact that you are endangering a critical production workflow, it’s also about RESPECT. The video editor has worked just as hard to get to where they are today as you have, and they have put just as much time, hard work and love into the project as you did. You don’t just pipe in and say “You wanna second guess the editor’s work without consulting him, Mr. Producer Man? Sure thing, let’s see what we can slash about here…” Finishing a professional film production is always teamwork. And it’s always about respect, which brings me to:

Sigh. I was going to reply rather nastily to this. Luckily for me, my excellent co-forists Trumppi and Mattias beat me to it with beautiful examples of poised and level-headed replies to a thoroughly immature insult. So suffice it for me to say at this point: Bad form, sir.

How about “rewiring” FCP X to Nuendo?

I know exaclty what you mean: have been working in this space for a long time, ie, round-tripping between NLEs & DAWs.

First up I’d say check out Blackmagic’s DaVinci Resolve NLE, now at 15.2, https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/au/products/davinciresolve/
There’s a free version and a $300-odd ‘Studio’ version with extra plugs, functionality. This is the only platform that I am aware of that is intent on fully developing an NLE into a combined DAW. Of particular note, Blackmagic bought Fairlight a couple of years ago and now all of that technology - both soft -und hardware - is now in the Blackmagic stable. See https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/au/products/davinciresolve/fairlight

The Fairlight pages have editing, mxing, plugs, routing etc as one would expect and certainly well beyond any extistng NLEs (including Premier). Can be a little flaky at times, but is constantly being updated and widened. My main gripes: no ASIO drivers and no real MIDI to speak of - quite important for me for composition and a swag of VIs. I can get around the ASIO thing becuase Resolve will point to ‘system sound’ and as long at that uses your ASIO box, no problem.

I’m still round tripping to Nuendo & that works fairly transparently: Resolve can render out mult-track audio with reference movie, then Nuendo very nicely upacks and splits all that audio into lanes, adds a movie track etc. After mix, music, sweetening etc I then just bounce out a final master audio file at the LUFS I want, and drop that into a new Resolve timeline.

Still, I take others’ points about Neundo needing at least a few movie editing features … woh, backup: how about re-instating bounce-audio-to-video feature? Then there’s the broken support for Blackmagic Decklink drivers etc. Then perhaps like ProTools Ultimate (for starters) we should expect to see just a little competitiveness? Tools provides multiple video tracks (view one at a time) and some rudimentary cut features.

Anyways, I’m following the Resolve development. Combo NLE-DAW ambitions and certainly is getting along very nicely. Vote with yer pocket.

I haven’t been able to reply because I was temp banned from my replies in here. snowflakes :laughing:

And you just tell them, the daw isn’t capable of rendering video at full resolution.


Sorry, but I don’t think current bugs and improvement needs are not something that should be used to try and negate progress and ideas. That’s just silly, so it doesn’t need to be discussed here. Bugs need to be worked on, alongside new development, that’s reality. Sorry.

Maybe everyone in here needs to listen to me, sorry, I don’t mean to sound dismissive, but I have decades of not being stuck in a certain work pattern and can no longer think outside the box and have issues letting go and allowing change.

Now fast forward to a few years ago when I started getting requests to send out audio-to-picture for review. No biggie. PT allows me to bounce to video. But then there was bouncing to shorter sections. And eventually people started asking if I could tweak edits that became problematic (i.e. lip-sync issues etc) and finally “Can we adjust color here?”.

So, the question is really a deeper one here; how much different type work do you really want to do in post? Highly skilled professional or “Jack of all trades master of none”? Which ultimately pays most? Which is ultimately most rewarding.

– AND: Are you prepared to not only be responsible for audio being to spec, but also video?

My guess is that you’re actually right about things converging and that there’s a benefit to it to decent size of the market, but the question is if it’s better to add stuff to Nuendo or simply learn how to operate Resolve alongside Nuendo instead. I for one would rather become good at Resolve and very good at Nuendo than having to deal with upcoming issues with video features… and ‘yes’, I’m absolutely being a pessimist about that.

Man oh man, all this talk - sorry but It seems like you’re not even stopping to think. You are typing here with such confidence but are ignoring so many variables that exist maybe outside your own narrow sliver of what you - personally - do, which maybe has commonality with what other people also do. so what. I don’t understand what it is you are trying to dictate or why, in terms of what a high skilled professional can or can’t be doing without being considered a jack of all master of none? I want to do the work that I want to do, I want to accomplish creative objectives I have in mind, parameters of workflow resulting in variations of outcome. I’m not worried about people asking me to do something I don’t do, or don’t want to do. I’m sorry I just find this to be an incredibly shallow conversation.

I have projects and ideas, I want, as a highly skilled professional that would benefit immensely from what I am describing that no other DAW or NLE on the market offers. None of you have to do anything you don’t want to… Or maybe you should evolve and not get so stuck on how you have been working for 30 years, otherwise, you will become obsolete.

There are people who are combined media artists, they are highly skilled professionals - I wouldn’t consider Brian Eno a jack of all master of none.

Maybe everyone here should listen to me :laughing:

Sure.

What’s your real name?

So, just because I have 30 years of experience I can’t think ”outside the box”?
I mean really?!

I most definately think outside the box a lot. I am very keen on new features and have suggested many on my own. But in this case your idea just is a bad idea that would lead to difficulties. You are entitled to your opinnions, but stop this arrogant attitude.

Guys, just stop feeding the troll already.

I’m curious if this could be done via ARA2?

https://figure53.com/lockstep/

:sunglasses::muscle: