As some of you aware I have a small band(ette) that plays live weekly. We call ourselves The Stragglers.
One of the reasons I’ve been revisiting some old tunes recently is because they are infact versions we cover. We’ve decided to release a CD; songs originating from my past stuff, Shayne’s “Glasspuppets” project and some of the past collabs I did here under the name “Cybase” . The recordings are based on the way we play the various songs live - just polished up in the studio for general consumption. Many have been turned upside down and inside out compared to the original version, tempos have increased on most. In a live context this seemed to work much better and was a welcome contrast I think to other performers we play alongside - sometimes watching consecutive lone singer/songwriters with acoustic guitars can get a little ‘sleepy’ for the audience so we try to wake them up!
We’re going for a slightly grungy, garageband sound - based around acoustic guitar -and Shayne too often plays acoustic bass also. He has a somewhat manical bass style which suits the vibe and I think it will be most evident in these songs:
Hi Jet,
Yeah, a simple song about living each day, doing it now, and not putting things off 'till tomorrow…
Not many of the tunes we’re performing are particularly dynamic… in that there’s not much loud and quite passages - they’re all pretty hard-hitting and unrelenting from the get go. There’s plenty of other performers at the gigs we play at that are quite capable of putting the audience to sleep! I think it’s fair to say that the energy is largely due to Shayne’s influence!
In terms of actual compression, recently on ‘Do You Remember’ also attracted some over-compressed comment - but similarly I actually used less compression overall than I have previously used on pretty much everything I’ve posted. So, I guess if this one also sounds compressed then I can only assume that’s more a fucntion of the arrangement. I get what you say about the hats but for me, a lot of the drive comes from the hats so I’m a little reluctant to ease them back, and as you say:
As yet no nits with this one. On first listen it sounds quite good to me.
‘Carpe Diem’
This one is not working quite as well yet for me. What initially struck me was the acoustic guitars in the intro sound di’d which I feel doesn’t quite work in this context. Later on in the song they work a bit better where they are more in the mix. Don’t like the snare, sorry. I don’t think there is a problem so much with over compression as, like you say, the arrangement if very full. For example, I think it’s verse two where you introduce a flute type sound. I feel some other element of the mix needs to drop in order to allow the new flavour to come though.
Actually - they were recorded with dual mics I never DI an acoustic unless I plan to ‘electrify’ it.
Don’t like the snare, sorry.
Well, that kinda goes without saying!
No one ever likes my snares. Over the years I’ve used pretty much every snare I own… and there’s a lot - the entire suite of Jamstix stock kits, Steven Slate drums (used on these songs) etc etc. It seems none of those snares are any good. And recently Doug really didn’t like the snare in another tune I posted recently (No Ordinary Day) - and those drums were recorded live (played by Scott Garrett).
Actually, why doesn’t someone just name a snare sample that they DO like and I’ll use that one!
I feel some other element of the mix needs to drop in order to allow the new flavour to come though.
Hiya Ian. These are pretty good. Bet they’re popular live. I hear the snare comments I’d agree, you want the snare to be pointy like a real snare so that basically means reduced compression or a different kit. The toms don’t sound much like toms either. Get a Dire Straits album out or something and listen to that. If you’ve got Steven Slate drums then fiddle around with the library and see what you’ve got in there.
Listen to the rock drums here: http://www.dooleydrums.com/Premium-Drum-Loops
That’s pretty much what I’m on about though even some of these sound over-processed
Nerg’s drums sound excellent too. Tony used to rave about Addicitve Drums as well, maybe get the demo and spend a few minutes testing those?
Well I don’t think I am as fussy as Doug. Had another listen. The snare is not disastrous but it could be tune a little lower IMHO. It does have nice energy though. Some of your tunes are fine. I am one of those that don’t like the Jamstix snares, to me they are normally easy to spot in a mix, especially some of the rock/pop ones and don’t seem to sit in a mix.
I like both songs and would love seeing a bank playing in the style.
As far as the snare, it’s fine. I do chuckle when you take the snare hit though. Because you guys use sampled drums, there are a ton of choices and different opportunities to blend a couple together, advance and retard a copy track to thicken, etc. The sampled drums are very sterile compared to live drums. In recording live snare, there is a lot junk that come through, but , the primary sounds in my set up are; top mic, attack and tom tom sounding thud with a trace of snare rattle; bottom mic; tons of snare rattle, attack, more pitchy sounding. Of course there are the overheads, kic, toms, and hats mics that have bleed and blended together give the snare sound.
So my thought is this. What if you,[ did I say your snare was fine? It is, I am just wondering here.] made a track with a mock top snare mic to blend in with the snare track. Maybe a right pitch tom tom hitting on the snare hits, or even just double the original snare and eq it to bring out the woody tones around 100 to 250 hz then blend it in to give a thicker more rounded tone still keeping the pitchy, snappy attack and snare rattle of the original. Just a thought.
They sound great. I’ll bet your band sounds great live. The one thing that surprises me is you say you’re going for a grungy garageband sound, but to me it sounds like pop from the sixties (which is just fine). About that snare, I’d put some compression on it (with a 20-30 ms attack and a 4:1 ratio), apply its own plate reverb (for example “plate thin” setting in roomworks), and then vary the velocity between soft and loud passages. Can’t sound grungy without distored electric guitars!
Me too. It’s now become THE thing to do when I post up a tune.
What if you… made a track with a mock top snare mic to blend in with the snare track. Maybe a right pitch tom tom hitting on the snare hits, or even just double the original snare and eq it to bring out the woody tones around 100 to 250 hz then blend it in to give a thicker more rounded tone still keeping the pitchy, snappy attack and snare rattle of the original. Just a thought.
The Steve Slate kits I’m using often have two snares, which are blended to taste. Typically one has all the rattle.
I’ve often been adding EQ - around 250hz for a bit of weight and around 5kHz for edge/snap.
I’d put some compression on it (with a 20-30 ms attack and a 4:1 ratio), apply its own plate reverb (for example “plate thin” setting in roomworks), and then vary the velocity between soft and loud passages.
Thanks for the tips. It may well be that one of my issues is that I tend to mix the snare quite dry… ?
…sometimes watching consecutive lone singer/songwriters with acoustic guitars can get a little ‘sleepy’ for the audience so we try to wake them up! >
Tell-me-all-about-it!
She Wants It Over…
Love the piano fills. Got great energy and drive. The mix to me sounds just fine, Ian. (Acoustic guitar sound is just great too.)
Carpe Diem…
(Is this exactly the same tempo as She Wants It Over?) Again a really finely recorded acoustic guitar. So nice to hear a nice non-di’d acoustic on a mix like this. You can actually tell it’s a good guitar - sound like a Martin? We might have had this conversation before…
Great chorus!
Again, nothin’ to say about the mix - sounds just fine to me.
Yup, I’d reckon The Stragglers is a great live band.
Cheers Dave. Both of these songs are at around 140bpm from memory.
And you’ll be surprised to know the acoustic cost me $NZ320. An Epiphone - it was one of those rare finds. I’d just read a rave review of this guitar online, very cheap, made in China but apparently sounding fantastic. One reviewer in fact compared it favourably to his Martin costing 10x as much. As a stoke of good fortune a few days later I noticed a local Chinese music store happened to have this exact model on sale. I bought it without hesitation, had a bone saddle installed and had it set up properly by a local luthier - in accordance with recommendation by one of the reviewers. I very happy with it.
I think it’s fair to say that the energy is largely due to Shayne’s influence!
I don’t think there is a problem so much with over compression as, like you say, the arrangement if very full. For example, I think it’s verse two where you introduce a flute type sound. I feel some other element of the mix needs to drop in order to allow the new flavour to come though.
I never DI an acoustic unless I plan to ‘electrify’ it.
Had another listen. The snare is not disastrous but it could be tune a little lower IMHO. It does have nice energy though. Some of your tunes are fine. I am one of those that don’t like the Jamstix snares, to me they are normally easy to spot in a mix, especially some of the rock/pop ones and don’t seem to sit in a mix.
One reviewer in fact compared it favourably to his Martin costing 10x as much. As a stoke of good fortune a few days later I noticed a local Chinese music store happened to have this exact model on sale. I bought it without hesitation, had a bone saddle installed and had it set up properly by a local luthier - in accordance with recommendation by one of the reviewers. I very happy with it.