The Windows problem - any news?

Before that - I think it’s more important that the mixer receives a new redesign (you know what I mean…!)


As I have read in the press (not tested yet) WaveLab has a new UI-Manger. This one could easily be reused for Cubase.

But the solution could be much easier:

The problem with the flipping, and resizing windows and un-maximizing windows is not a windows limitation (as it was mentioned before in this thread) and is not the default behaviour of windows-applications but seems to be an incorrect use of the MDI pattern under windows.

It is correct and expected behaviour that if an MDI child is maximized, and a second MDI child is opened the maximized child will be unmaximized. This behaviour can perfectly be seen in older versions of Paint Shop Pro.
It is not correct and unexpected behaviour that if an MDI child is maximized, and a dialog is opened the maximized child will be unmaximized. The correct behaviour can also be seen in older versions of Paint Shop Pro.

The problem is a different opinion between the users and the developers at steinberg, which elements are defined as MDI-children and which are dialogs. The difference between these is that MDI children cannot be moved outside of their parent window, whild dialogs can.

The users understand the “D” in MDI as a "D"ocument, which is a project main window. This is also the Microsoft Definition of MDI. Nothing else should be a “document”.

The implemented behaviour is quite different. Every window is created as a MDI-child, and the “always on top” option changes the window to a dialog

These settings (whether the to-be-created window is a dialog or a MDI child) are defined in the Windows API as a simple parameter :

HWND WINAPI CreateWindowEx(
  __in      DWORD dwExStyle,   <<- WS_EX_MDICHILD makes this window a MDI-CHILD
  __in_opt  LPCTSTR lpClassName,
  __in_opt  LPCTSTR lpWindowName,
  __in      DWORD dwStyle,
  __in      int x,
  __in      int y,
  __in      int nWidth,
  __in      int nHeight,
  __in_opt  HWND hWndParent,
  __in_opt  HMENU hMenu,
  __in_opt  HINSTANCE hInstance,
  __in_opt  LPVOID lpParam

Simply removing this flag on every window except the project main window should cure most of the GUI-Problems.
I dont see this change as “too expensive”


Soryy for this nerdish tech talk, but I feel much better now :open_mouth:

To be correct, if I talk about dialogs, these can also be implementd as independent (non-MDI) child windows…

Mink > You are my hero!

Interesting mink. thank you.
Have you any insight into why some get this, some dont’t and some, like me, get it only occasionally (and that only on new Cubase versions that seems to cease after some useage)?

Got me curious now.

Hmmm… Well this one bites me every time again. For some windows it can be cured by configuring them to be “always on top”, but for some reason this does not work with all windows (some cannot be configured to be “always on top” at all)…

I am using Cubase 6 Artist and was thinking about upgrading to the full Cubase 6 version. But, to be honest, I am not sure any longer. This sudden (and most times not anticipated) resizes are in some cases extremely annoying, and can bring a smooth session to a screeching halt. Oherwise - when you keep the main window not full but always resized, you get a totally useless titlebar that is eating up valuable space (and can be easily dragged by accident if you doing some fast menu configurations).

This is a shame, because Cubase 6 is really a great program. I am still pleased with it, but -until this issue is solved- I am not using it as my main DAW…

JClosed, thank you, you brought the effort for the Steinberg developers down to one single line of code

If the Project window could be set to be “always on top” the main window could be minimized to the size of the menu bar
and no flickering will occur…

Dear Developers, please …
one line of code …

Could take me a few years :mrgreen: but I’ll try and see what I do to make it disappear. The only thing I know at the mo is that I never use “always on top” :question:
As I say it’s always, but not on every, new release and I always notice a flurry of posts on it at new release time. Some users seem to live with it or, like me, it “goes away”.

Great!! :slight_smile:

I hope that Steinberg has realised that this is important for the customers (judging from the numbers of threads regarding window handling).

Maybe the impressive window features in Halion 4 will be transfered to the next major Cubase update…Let’s hope that…it sure looks awesome! :slight_smile:

With another hat on, if it’s that simple a fix it shouldn’t have taken years unless the tea-boys thought they’d rather go to the pub. :mrgreen:

I did not want to use the RTFM - word, I guess it was a misunderstanding

similar things happen all the time (see

I think those of us who have experience working with other Daws understand the difference and why the window resizing is a pain. I hate working with the arrange window not maximized. I hate that the beat designer cannot be set as “always on top” so I can drag it to my second monitor.

Hi. - Thread starter here…

Someone asked me in the beginning what troubles I was having and asked me to elaborate on the subject. Most of the troubles I’m having though has already been covered by other users:

  1. Random resizing of windows - sometimes to the extremes - way bigger than my monitor solution. The last often happens when double-clicking on a midi or wave file. - But not always1?!!

  2. Working with and locking of workspaces have no real effect. Annoying resizing of windows still occur.

As a rule of thumb I never maximize my arranger window as this make working in Cubase a living hell regarding workflow. I work on a single 27" screen.

Instead I drag the arrangerwindow to max - introducing the extra - and unnessary bar at the top (but this I can live with as a workaround). But this approach seems to reduce the problems. However it doesn’t stop the random resizing of midi/audio work windows - and locking these with workspaces doesn’t help either.

Fixing the above mentioned problems should have a HIGH priority IMO. The need for workarounds on such an essential matter (which is the case for SO many users - just browse the forum archives) should never be the case in a professional DAW. And any healthy company (especially in this economy) should understand the importance on listening to their customers or risk mass migration to other and better alternatives who do.

The above mentioned is what I consider to be problems which needs a proper fix asap. I see two ways such a fix could be implemented:

a) a recoding of the current window structure in order to fix the above mentioned problems.

b) a total redesign of the basic windows structure so that it functions like in Presonus Studio 1 and/or Ableton Live. I see this approach as the future of GUI.

Now I have not worked in Ableton (just briefly touched it a couple of times), but today I spoke with a friend who uses it. He said that even VST-instruments are locked in their own little window on the screen (no floating windows) - but you can choose to de-attach them IF YOU CHOSE! The same goes for the mixer in Presonus Studio One. It’s attached in its own fixed space - but you can de-attach it as a floating window if you prefer that - and move it to a second monitor!!! I find a total redesign necessary to prevent the basic chaos of floating windows in Cubase - which of course only gets worse with the random resizing. But I can live with the chaos for now (of the floating windows issues - not the resizing) - because that is something I can control - though I would much prefer the Ableton/S1 approach. - They seriously lack on the audio/midi editing possibilities though. But if S1 catches up on these subjects - well then I’m off - bye bye Cubase :wink:

I would love to hear what the developers of Cubase think of these suggestions. Is there a possibility for a Ableton/Presonus-like solution in the near future? Do they still insist, that there are no problems with the windows and workspaces - and it is just the users who needs to adapt? Or do they still insist that there is nothing they can do - it is a fault in the windows API?

This was not supposed to be a rant - but just constructive criticism for a better DAW - which I already (for most parts) love to work in :wink:


a recoding of the current window structure in order to fix the above mentioned problems.

Just these several lines of code for the next minor update…

a total redesign of the basic windows structure so that it functions like in Presonus Studio 1 and/or Ableton Live. I see this approach as the future of GUI.

for Version 7

please keep in mind that Cakewalk is promoting their GUI-refactoring as a “major new feature” (called Skylight)
regards Mink

ps SDI/tabs is not the future of GUI but the present

Very good points Sir (=

I would like to make the score an Always on Top, so that it can be placed on another monitor/TV.

I have several monitors, but they are not in a rectangular pattern, so that spreading the main window over them all would put some elements of the window out of view.

Always on Top for ALL modules, especially as a global default (not just for VST plugins) would be better for me.

Also, a ‘recover windows to main monitor’ command would go a long way to retrieving windows that had decided to keep themselves in phantom, hidden positions when the multi-monitor layout changes. Opening an old project that was saved under an old multi-monitor workspace is a PITA to find all the far flung windows.

Thumbs up to this!
VSTs have always on top…why not all midi plugs? ( and again NO I don’t wish to work with the arrange page NOT maximized)

I would say Cubase’s window hierarchy is becoming antiquated compared to other DAWS.

It would be great to know if Steinberg is listening in on this thread? (And all the others about the windows problems).

Are there any plans for a redesign of the GUI and windows architecture in the near future? And if so - will it be more in line with S1, Ableton and Cakewalk?

Just out of curiosity Maegin, what resolution is that 27" monitor set at?

Hi Conman.

I use a resolution of 1920x1080


Hm. Should be ok. What happens at higher or lower? I don’t think it goes lower than 1280x 1026 (on a 19inch)which is where mine is. As I say my problem seems to appear occasionally and then goes away so I wonder if it’s a memory management / graphics issue in Cubase.
I do appreciate other users may also have the problem at the same resolution as mine. Could be a few factors going on. Just trying to see if anything triggers some light to go on in a Steinberg programmers head. They seem reluctant to join in if they can’t see anything immediately plain. Although some posters have chipped in saying it’s a simple fix, and they may be right, it seems to have been there long enough for someone to have put in the five minutes needed to nail the little blighter if it is that simple.