Tie and Slur (in a row) [solved]

Hello,
I would like to add a slur after tied notes, like in this example.
How should I proceed?
B.t.w. I do not want the slur to start at the beginning of the bar, only after the second tied note.
Should I fake it with two slurs? Or is there another way to do this?
tie and slur.png

I’m afraid Dorico doesn’t currently allow this unless you fake it up, e.g. by putting the 8th notes in a different voice than the half note, and tieing the half to the first eighth using T. Dorico will only allow a slur to start at the start of a note, and unless those notes are in different voices, that eighth note is not a new note, but rather the end of the half note at the start of the bar.

If you have the choice not to reproduce that notation, then I would recommend you do what Dorico does by default, since it’s really not meaningful (at least in any musical context I can imagine) to show the slur starting halfway through that note rather than at the start of the note.

thanks Daniel,

I am actually trying to reproduce the original notation as far as possible. If you have a look at Mozarts manuscript, he notates as above:
Mozart.png

I got a similar problem the other way around. If I have a slur that connects to a note with a tie, the slur surrounds the tied note.


I’d prefer it to “touch” the first note.

Is there an option for that? Couldn’t find one in Slurs or Tie Engrave-Options

There isn’t an option for it yet, but there will be in due course.

I discovered a workaround:
1st) input the desired slur.
2nd) input the tie (afterwards)
Dorico (workaround).png
This works in the current version 1.0.10

Thanks k_b for this tip. Works like a charm.

Whether it is approved or not by present-day style gurus, the notation is used often in classical music. I can readily quote examples from Beethoven to Mahler and in between. Not recognising this would be like insisting that all horns must be notated in F, and timpani must always be notated at pitch (vide Mozart and Handel)! :slight_smile:

David

It also ‘feels’ different to play, with more of a mental accent on the second of the tied notes before moving on.
Even in contemporary music it is sometimes worth writing like this to be consistent with other parts that are not tied.

I really love the natural way that Dorico does it now: it is so wonderful to not have to be precise, to know that the program will go to the very end of the note. But I also, from time to time, want to have the slur go not to the end of the entire note, but to some other point before. I don’t mind the workaround already given by k_b, I’ve used it. My only wish is that the current behavior doesn’t change in any way that would be more tedious. Having worked with other programs that don’t have this behavior, I was delighted by Dorico’s solution. Hope we end up with something that makes us all happy!

I agree with both David and Steve’s assessments.

The historical significance of this phenomenon is briefly discussed here, with some very interesting insight in the context of piano music from John Ruggero.

the workaround does not work any more…

Hello k_b,

No workaround is needed now if you have the latest version of Dorico installed, this has the option to set slurs with ties as you want. :slight_smile:

Go to: “Engrave Mode → Engrave → Engraving Options → Slurs → Tied Notes” then select: “Start from last note in tie chain.”

Best wishes,

Michael

:slight_smile:
thank you very much!!