tied notes and force duration

I want to tie some notes at certain rhythmical values: the first where it says sul pont. (see image) and the second at sul tasto. But as soon as I tie the second pair at the end, the first one changes and the second one becomes a half note. I had to use force duration for the first one (else Dorico would respell the rhythm) but that doesn’t seem to hold when the second gets tied.

Welcome to the forum, cobeer2. Sorry that you’ve been having problems with Force Duration. You should find that provided every note in the tie chain is input with Force Durations switched on that Dorico will retain all of the rhythmic splits you specify, but you really do need to make sure that all of the notes were input with Force Durations before you tie them together.

I also find it easiest to add everything in order, left to right, in Forced Duration:
note - tie (even though you will not immediately see it) - note - tie - note

Ah thanks, inputting everything in order did work.
So if I understand it correctly, force duration isn’t a property that a note has (turned on or off), but rather a special type of note that can only be created when manually inputting notes? If this is the case, the logic is a bit opaque and in my case, rather unfortunate, since I usually import my music from Logic (which I use to compose) and then tidy up the stuff.

Force Duration can be added to an existing note, but what it does in that situation is prevent the existing note value from being lengthened.

For example, here I have a half/minim tied to an eighth/quaver. If I extend it without Force Duration, it becomes a dotted half/minim. If I turn on Force Duration and then extend it, it remains a half/minim tied to an eighth/quaver, then adds an additional tie to an additional eighth/quaver.

and back again…same passage (see image). I had to redo the whole thing when I wanted to enter dynamics (which in itself I find rather…unconstructive) but now I just don’t get it to work. How do I input the notes so that everything is as it is, just tied together?

This whole tie-handling is not really convenient, unless you know beforehand exactly how you want to do it. There seems to be no room for editing (because you have to redo the whole passage, and sometimes even several times). Wouldn’t it be waaaaaaaay easier if you could just select the right position and “cut-and-tie” the note?

You don’t need to redo it to add dynamics!! The dynamics functionality is actually quite powerful, and one of my favorite things about Dorico.

You can select the hairpin or the final dynamic, and lengthen or shorten as needed, using Shift-Alt-L/R or Alt-L/R.

You can also enter hairpins while in note input mode. Move the caret to the desired spot, Shift-D, enter the hairpin, and press spacebar. Watch what happens…

You don’t even need Shift+D for hairpins, Dan.

Ah, indeed! Thanks, that saves a lot of time.

Still (sorry for the nagging) I had to redo it here for I wanted the end of the hairpin to stop at a specific rhythmic position so I had to do all the tie stuff again.

Also, in all my naivety I assumed it wasn’t possible to control the start and ending points of hairpins since you can’t drag them to those positions using the handles. This “stuff doesn’t work here but it does work there” makes it rather unclear how the program works…

Except you don’t have to untie stuff to get a hairpin to end where you want it to. You can input the hairpin with the caret, set the rhythmic grid to an appropriately small value and then use either Space or Shift+Alt+arrows to extend/shorten it.

Edit: this is fairly comprehensively covered in the manual, here: Lengthening/Shortening gradual dynamics and groups of dynamics

I understand, but I wanted the end of the hairpin reflected in the rhythm.
So like:

and not like:

There, you can enter note input mode, move the caret to the spot you want to untie, Force Duration, U to untie, and T to re-tie.

Again, no need to re-enter the notes.

You don’t even need to untie and re-tie anything: you can do it all by advancing the caret and using the Shift+D popover with Space.

I think cobeer was wanting to display the tied rhythm to specify where the dynamic changed, hence the need for Force Duration. Half tied to quarter instead of dotted half…

PS: I wish more composers/arrangers would do this, to make clear where dynamics are exactly supposed to change!

haha thanks! :slight_smile: