Time Signature Bug?

Hi Daniel,

Thank you for your response. Here is the .zip archive.
Klimov(time sig problem).zip (469 KB)
I see in the previous comments that it has to do with the placement of caesuras; if that is indeed the issue, thank you for resolving it for us! I won’t be able to try the solution now until I buy the product, but it’s good to know there is hope once I do!

Thanks,
Konstantin

Thanks, Konstantin. I can confirm that the problems in your project are also caused by the rhythmic positions at which you’ve created the fermatas and/or caesuras. If you need me to fix this up for you properly when you buy a Dorico license, let me know.

Oh wow I discovered this odd behaviour today too. Strange things occurring in parts, overlapping notes and rests with time signatures. Turns out a Caesura 4 bars earlier caused it all. Yes, an auto snap back to a correct position that doesn’t devastate the rest of the score would be fabulous. :slight_smile:

The good news is that this problem has been fixed since Dorico 2.0’s release and so it won’t trouble you any further once the next update is available.

Adding bars at time signature changes can often cause serious problems. i.e. bars that ‘don’t add up’. It’s pretty easy to replicate but only seems to happen when the bars contain notes. I’d swear the problem got worse since the last revision.

Welcome to the forum @rodbowkett - are you perhaps running into the difference between changing a time signature earlier than another existing time signature without Insert mode active? Dorico won’t automatically insert extra beats unless Insert mode is active, in order to preserve note positions relative to each other. Here’s some information about Insert mode, with a comparison between changing a time signature with/without Insert mode.

You’re probably seeing the difference when there are notes rather than with empty bars, which generally show a single bar rest regardless of their length, so the difference is less noticeable.

No changing time sig involved. Simply adding a bar. Surely it shouldn’t even be possible for a bar to ‘not add up’ i.e. a 3/4 that is filled by 2 crotchets. It happens when a time change bar is selected and a new empty bar is added using the popover.

Incidentally while I’m at it you have quite a serious bug on macOS with desktop spaces (which I tend to use quite a lot). If you open a second Dorico file it tends to open in an adjacent space (screen). The trouble starts when you switch between spaces… It doesn’t take long before the app starts twitching uncontrollably between screens. Force quit is the only way to resolve it but is hard to click on because of the frantic screen switching.

As Lillie says, you need to make sure you have Insert mode engaged when you add your time signature if you have another existing time signature later in the music. Provided you do that, you’ll find that the subsequent time signature(s) are moved along, and your new time signature will always finish with a complete bar.

As for the problem with Spaces, I’ve not come across this before. Are you able to capture a screen recording of the problem you’re seeing? Thanks!

Thanks Daniel, I’ll try that. Meanwhile here are examples of ‘impossible’ bars created by adding bars midstream (at time sig change)
Screenshot 2021-05-27 at 12.29.45
Screenshot 2021-05-27 at 12.29.45

Will try and capture a video of the spaces problem. Might have to use my phone because you lose control of the desktop while its happening

Screenshot 2021-05-27 at 12.23.33

You might need to explain the order in which you’re doing things, or what you’re expecting to happen when. Your static screenshots don’t appear to show additional bars; they all show a single bar in one time signature followed by another bar in a different time signature followed by another bar in another time signature.

Dorico will only rebar music as far as the next explicit time signature; it can’t predict what you want it to do next when you add a meter mid-flow. You either need to tell it to add the beats by turning on Insert mode, or use the Shift-B popover to add extra beats to a bar that’s currently too short for its meter, or delete and recreate the following time signatures.

‘use the Shift-B popover to add extra beats to a bar’ - thanks I wasn’t aware of that functionality, that will solve my problem.

I guess I’ve been thinking of time sigs from DAW standpoint. i.e. a 1-1 correlation of beat sum to time sig

Just a thought but when you change a time sig in a bar so that some of the notes no longer fit and a new bar is created after the current one to preserve the leftovers it might be worth considering making that new bar ‘add up’ but giving it the appropriate time sig.