Transposing notes and key signatures

I’ve been working around this issue for some time now, However, the music in question has gotten more complicated and my hack is taking too much time. As simple as I know it must be, I’m stuck: How do you transpose both a selection of notes and simultaneously change the key signature for the duration of the selection? I’ve attached a simple example phrase in whole notes in C major and a screenshot of what seems like a simple transposition of the phrase from C major down to Bb major. No matter what combination of settings in the Transpose dialogue that I try, I never get the simple ‘down a major second’ result’ I want.

…plus, the ‘Transpose key signatures’ option is always greyed out. What silly mistake am I making? I really hate to clog the Forum with this basic a question, but doing manual transpositions by playing the existing notes in again with ‘Lock Rhythm’ after (or before) setting the new key signature is getting to be non-scalable (no pun intended) for larger sections of music.

If the “Transpose key signatures” option is greyed out, it typically means that there aren’t any key signatures in your selection. The Transpose dialog doesn’t create new key signatures for you - it simply allows you to transpose any that are selected (along with the notes/chords). However, the transposed notes will still be selected after you’ve transposed them, so if you do want to create a new key signature then you can do that as the next step and it will be positioned at the start of the selection.

Thanks. I had read in the documentation that the key signature needed to be selected. But how do you do that…particularly if the source phrase is in C (however, I just tried with a source phrase in another key and can’t seem to select the key signature itself). I’m sure that must be trivial…but I can’t seem to find the right key/click.

Dorico differentiates between „atonal“ (no key signature and no signpost) and „C/a“ (no key signature but a signpost)

So if a piece is in C you have to set this key signature!

Apart from that, you should find that selecting the passage you want to transpose via the system track should also select any system objects (such as key signatures, but also meters, chords etc)

Nice fact to know (C major vs atonal)…but this didn’t change things on my end. Maybe I’m not understanding what ‘selecting via the System track means.’ When I show the System track and use it to select all the bars that I want to transpose, I still get the same results. Is there a sub-menu somewhere that lets one choose which system objects are being selected. All I see is the entire duration of the System track now orange.

If you select the measures in the system track above the top staff (looks like rectangles that will light up orange when selected), and then check the small box that appears at the right end of your selection, it should highlight all aspects of the notation for those measures, including the signpost that says “C major”. Then when you hit “transpose” it will allow to select key signature.
Screen Shot 2022-12-29 at 6.45.44 AM

Yes, I was just reading about the system track and saw that explanation of the small box on the right after you’ve made a selection…so I’m getting closer. (I think the nice ‘C major’ that you showed above must be in Dorico 4. I’m still on 3.5.12 but need to move I know).
I’ve also figured out that I can apparently completely ignore the ‘calculate interval’ settings on the right side of the dialogue and just set my transpose parameters to (in this case) ‘down a major 3rd.’
However, in messing around a bit with the ‘calculate interval’ settings, I can see that it was one of the reasons I was getting weird transpositions. Now that I can see how do transpose and change the key signature (and that the key signature of C major needs to be explicitly declared), I can do what I need to do. Is there some hidden magic in using the ‘calculate internal’ settings or that they be ignored for straight-ahead transpositions?
Thanks to all for the hand-holding. Very much appreciated!

Signposts are there since… the beginning (or close). So it’s only a matter of showing them :wink: (View menu>Signposts)

I’ve got signposts turned on (and all options including Key Signature checked) and I still don’w see the key signature displayed. However, I don’t want to take more of people’s time. I’ve solved my main problem and that was the purpose of my original post. Unless it’s a trivial oversight on my part to enable the display shown above, I’ll let it rest as something I may discover in the future…:slight_smile: Thanks again for the help!!

Have you input a C major key signature? If not, there isn’t a key signature “item” that exists, which is why you can’t select it.

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Hi Lillie – Yes I have (thanks to a comment above above ‘C major’ vs ‘atonal.’ Here’s a screenshot in F major with all the signposts turned on and the key signature dutifully selected. Just no signpost to show it in text form.

If there are accidentals in the key signature, no signpost will show (as it’s clear by the accidentals). Only C major or a minor will show a signpost.

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Perfect explanation. Thanks!!