Transposing Score with NO Key signature?


Is it possible to create a transposing score with NO KEYSIGNATURE?
I have imported an XML File of a composition that is in C
I would like to have the score engraved as a transposed score
But have NO key signature

Easy to do in Sibelius

Is it possible in Dorico

I think the program has a lot of promise in its directness and simplicity.
Still learning and searching for those features that make it useable for my work

Tom Davis

Related Question: Is it possible to set a key signature on the full score that does not show on the staves but affects the spelling of notes/chords entered via a MIDI keyboard?

(I’m a little puzzled to play an open fifth and see D#-Bb appear.)

I’m not sure if I understood the question correctly, but if you don’t insert any key signature at all, Dorico’s default is to use an open key signature. That is, the instruments are transposed, but no key signature is added. If the imported file already has the key signature of C, you could just try deleting that key signature.

The key signature C is a bit trickier to delete since you can’t normally see it in the score, but you could go to the part of any transposing instrument, and delete in from there. It will be deleted from every instrument. Or, you could just choose Edit / Transposed Pitch, so that the transposed key signatures are visible directly in the score. Then you can select it and delete it.

I haven’t yet been able to achieve correct behavior in Dorico on XML imports EXCEPT when the source file is set to Keyless (Open Key). I only work in Finale, but I assume this is also possible in Sibelius.

In Finale I set the transposing instruments to transpose by interval rather than key signature and export it. When imported into Dorico the score first appears UNtransposed, so I go into Layout Options>Players and switch ON transpostion for the score and it then appears transposed without Key Signatures. However, the generated parts gets doubly transposed, so I have to switch off transposition for the parts layouts. Then both score and parts are without KS’es and correctly transposed.

As long as there are no key sign inserted to the score the parts won’t get any sharps or flats either. But when adding a trill to a transposing instrument Dorico doesn’t compensate for the transposition in the open key environment.

In the transposed example below the trill should have an added sharp.

When I asked Daniel about this a while ago he said that open key isn’t fully implemented yet.
Bb trumpet - Transposed pitch.png
Bb trumpet - Concert pitch.png

This solved my problem and answered my question.

I deleted the key in the transposing score


sorry to revive an old thread, but I’m facing the same problem. I’m writing an atonal piece that includes a saxophone, for which I want no key signatures whatsoever, regardless of transposition. So I tried deleting the key signature as tmd11159 suggested. However, I also have quartertones in my score, which disappear when I simply delete the key signature. From what I see now, there’s no way of writing microtonal piece for a transposing instruments with no key signature, which I find slightly ironic. I hope this will be fixed eventually.

The tonality system is a property of the key signature, which is why deleting it reverted to 12-EDO and you lost your quartertone accidentals.

Set the tonality to 24-EDO (or your own custom tonality), press shift-K to create a key signature, and type atonal in the popover.

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I find it incredible that you cannot swicth back and forth between transposed score and concert score. It is a second in Sibelius and I have been trying for over an hour. The parts are not transposing either. I never had this problem before and I cannot get it to show the score as transposed. I prefer to see the key signatures in all of the parts when i am writing.

Concert Pitch/Transposed Pitch is on the Edit menu. This is a proxy for a Layout Option.

Normally part layouts are automatically transposing - if you go to Layout Options, you should be able to go through all your layouts on the list on the right and check whether they’re set to transposing or concert pitch.

If you haven’t input a key signature at all, even transposing parts won’t show one - “no key signature” is treated as atonal in Dorico, rather than C major or A minor.