Tremolos

Hi.

I noticed something very strange regarding tremolos:

When I have a note without a flag that is tied to a note with a flag and I apply a tremolo, then Dorico correctly subtracts the flag from the number of needed tremolo slashes. See this example: The half note is tied to the eighth note, I select the 2-slashes-tremolo, the half note gets two slashes and the second note gets only one slash. Very nice.

Now, when I nudge the note one 1/8 step to the left, strange things happen: The hole thing has still the 2-slash-tremolo applied to it, but now the eighth note gets 2 slashes instead of 1, and the half note gets three slashes.

This is quite inconsistend, in my opinion. I don’t expect the number of slashes to change depending on where the notes start.
I would really appreciate it, if Dorico would handle the second case like the first: Treat my tremolo selection as “the amount of subdivisions requested” and only show the number of slashes that are needed depending on what flags are already on each note.

Thanks, Estigy
tremolo-2.png
tremolo-1.png

Dorico applies the slash to the first note in the group, and then calculates the remaining slashes based on the how long the notes are relative to the first note in the group.

If the first note in the group changes value, say from a minim (half) to a quaver (eighth) then unfortunately the number of slashes on the first note doesn’t change, as you can see in your screenshots.

I believe this is already on the team’s to-do list, but in the meantime you just have to be careful about moving tremolo’d notes around!

Hi, pianoleo!

Yes, I know where this is coming from. Just wanted to put out to the team that this is quite inconsistent and causes unexpected side effects when composing and moving things around.
I actually stumbled upon it when I saw tremolos with 4 slashes and thought “What? I never do 4 slashes - where is all this coming from??”

Well rest assured they know about it :slight_smile:

Hello! Right now, is it possible to create tremolos that are not based on the note values in a tie chain but that just shows the same number of slashes on all notes? I believe that is common practice for unmeasured tremolos.

It may be one practice, but it’s by no means universal. I am used to seeing it the way Dorico does it in the orchestral scores I study.

1 Like

I agree with @Rinaldo - That is not common practice for unmeasured tremolos.
A string player would interpret this as all unmeasured trem (unless told otherwise)
trem1

3 Likes

I’ve said it before, but stem slashes originally are just abbreviations for (measured) repeated notes, and shouldn’t casually be called tremolos in the first place.
Anyway, in orchestral practice, it’s accepted notation that when a composer adds more slashes than a string player can reasonably play rhythmically, it results in unmeasured tremolo (could even happen with 16ths). In many cases, three slashes will do.
In a slow tempo however, Janus’s example might as well signify a regular subdivision in 32nd notes. For clarity, in that case, it’s customary to write the first few repeated 32nd notes as un-abbreviated to avoid confusion. If, on the other hand, a real shivering tremolo is intended anyway, I’d advise to add one more slash everywhere to make sure the notated abbreviation of the rhythm becomes ‘unplayable’.
You might also add a ‘trem.’ instruction, of course.
In any case, however, I don’t like it when the number of slashes (added to the number of beams) changes for adjacent notes, when they are supposed to indicate the same (unplayable) subdivision as a playing technique.

3 Likes

Sorry, I wasn’t clear enough. Of course individual notes of measured tremolo can have different number of strokes.
I mean that this behaviour occurs in tied notes, like tremolos for percussion, which is just confusing.