Hmm. They work fine here. I ignored the warning that they’re bound to other things in other contexts 
Maybe it’s a Windows vs Mac thing.
Just tried it again, no luck. Maybe @dspreadbury can weigh in. I would love this method, and I’m convinced others would too… just not sure why the key command isn’t binding.
Edit: to be clear, I’m trying to assign it to the regular Up and Down arrows… since I’d also want to use the L and R arrows from time to time.
1 Like
@dan_kreider totally agree about thinking more like intervals musically…and also that the location of the pitch note letters are not spacially located any place that makes sense that way…which is part of my own brain fart that makes me forget there the bloody A key is… Copying in by going up down by intervals would definitely be faster to me I think. Wo old be even faster if I could use some keys for each known interval.
Like here’s a proposal, I don’t know if this is possible now, but what if I could specify a midi key such as middle C as being a starting point…then for each next note, I hit a midi key relative to middle C, up or down, that that represents the next interval?
Then I could just hover my hand on middle C…and read the music I’m copying, by intervals, without concern about what the actual pitch is…jsut the interval…always using the midi keyboard with middleC representing the last note entered and the next key I will press will be relative to that by interval.
That’s why I mentioned above I use an standalone VST and turn it off in Dorico. I hear whatever I hit on my MIDI keyboard always as a piano sound, and don’t hear note input in Dorico. Of course playback in Dorico still plays with whatever VSTs I’ve assigned in Dorico, I just don’t hear anything from Dorico during note input, as I only hear my standalone piano VST sound.
1 Like
@Dewdman42
Maybe you could clarify a little more your expectations. You write that you are very proficient in typing text without looking at the keyboard, and it seems that your ultimate goal is to copy music without taking your eyes from the source as well.
Maybe this is the wrong expectation. I have done a lot of music preparation for a major radio station and my goal was simply to get the music into Finale back then. In the beginning the source was printed on paper, later it was PDF files which I had side by side on screen with the notation document.
I also use one hand on the numpad and one on the midi keyboard, and as most of it was bigband stuff with homorhythmic tutti writing I could after having entered the lead voice use the “keep rhythm overwrite pitches” function, so for the other section players I would only need the midi keyboard.
It is too long since to remember how long it took actually to copy one page of music, but it would not have come to my mind to compare it to other work I was doing on the computer - like typing text. They are completely different things to do, and in each of them you’ll eventually get faster.
I would like to keep this discussion open for ideas. I don’t do a lot of copy work, that’s part of why I find it frustrating to use Dorico the few times a year when I need to engrave something.
I originally bought Dorico because I was impressed by its playback capabilities and I thought I might use it eventually as my primary composing station, more so then for copy work. The fact that it can produce beautiful engraving, for me, was a plus on top of the possibility to use it for composing, arranging, and mocking things up as I go, while using traditional notation instead of a piano roll.
I can see now that Dorico is actually not at all ideal for that particular task, despite its phenomenal playback features. It is much more focused and suited on copy work. It also has the best-in-class layout features…So I am still committed to using Dorico for my occasional engraving needs…which may or may not turn into more needs someday, but for the most part, I don’t have to engrave that often. That is why I have not been able to become proficient at entering in the notes.
So this post is meant to simply seek out any and all alternative approaches people are using to enter in the notes and Music. At the very least, it could make my occasional engraving task easier to do. Perhaps eventually I will use the excellent playback facilities more…or use it as a composing platform…but currently its too slow to use for composing. I would have to become much much more proficient entering int he music…and without becoming sidetracked by mental thoughts about keyboard sequence encoding and how to type just the right sequences of key commands or whatever to get it in. Its simply too slow for composing in. I might feel differently if I can become in some way more proficient.
I don’t have one single fixed goal with this program. Just wanting to learn how to get music in faster…sometimes that might be while reading from some written sheet music, sometimes it might be from my own head, sometimes it might be in a more interactive way if I’m trying to compose. The last thing would be the only time I care about all the wonderful playback features…I could care less about playback features and expression maps, etc…when I’m in engraving mode… so that’s a bit ironic…
1 Like
So regarding this idea"
I don’t think this is possible in Dorico directly, but I am going to try to think about it and see if there is a way I could create some kind of Keyboard Maestro thing in combination maybe with some kind of midi filter…outside of Dorico…that could translate the above into the right Dorico commands to accomplish it. I actually think I could find that pretty fast and intuitive to use… not sure right now if I can accomplish it…but its something I am going to try to do at some point…
Interesting. Knowing I’ll be marked as an acolyte of Ned Ludd, I have yet to be convinced that software can be used in the initial stages of composing. But it must come down to the kind of music one’s composing. If for example I write fairly atonal/chromatic harmony, nothing can beat dotting m/s paper with a 4B pencil, no bar lines but an implicit time line. With this sort of music I don’t expect to get it exactly right so I try it out at a keyboard here and there . If I have second thoughts I can cross the phrase(s) through but leave it there in case I want to look back. Or write an alternative elsewhere on the paper.
Once it’s shaped up I suppose I should try entering it in Dorico. So far I’ve been editing xml files which has involved a fair bit of note entry (which may be better with a mouse) - like when Dorico (probably correctly) splurges a mess on a stave which should have been say a tuplet. So I can copy it to a spare stave for memory’s sake then enter the music properly!
1 Like
I do something similar. I have a VPO (virtual pipe organ) running in the background with Dorico on silent. I hear pitches regardless of whether or not I’m doing note entry or even have a stave selected.
I take a hybrid approach to many of the suggestions in this thread:
I primarily use my (61 note piano) keyboard for note entry. It’s an Akai VI61 so it has loads of midi buttons above the keys which I’ve literally labled and programmed to control Dorico. So right in the middle of the keyboard I have all my note values. Consequently, I can do note entry all at the keyboard, although I regularly use my computer keyboard to select note values as well. I also have a SD XL parked on the right side of the keyboard, so I use that too… basically, whichever is the most convenient to trigger my next keystroke for whatever reason. Either way, having a piano keyboard on my desk speeds things up immeasurably.
2 Likes
I disagree with this, but I think to be most effective compositionally you really need to use a MIDI keyboard with pitch-first input. I can leave the input cursor active, play whatever I want on my MIDI keyboard (hearing a piano sound) to find the right note, chord, voicing, or whatever, and then instantly input it by hitting the duration on my numeric keypad. I can seamlessly move from composing to input and back without any additional wasted time or keystrokes.
The problem with other methods of input, while fast for copying, is that you cannot leave the input cursor active otherwise you’ll be inputting whatever you hit on your MIDI keyboard. Composing this way means leaving and reentering input a gazillion times in the course of writing a piece. If you want to use Dorico for composing directly into software, I think pitch-first input is the way to go.
1 Like
A good numpad mapping goes a long way (Which the default keymap is NOT - it’s optimized (allegedly) for laptops).
I enter pitches with my left hand, durations and articulations with my right.
For not-too-complex stuff I can enter at virtual actual speed - faster if it’s something quite simple (e.g. most contrabasson parts)
OK. That made me think. Care to share your optimal mapping for the numpad?
you mind sharing your keymap?
1 Like
I typed it out a while back, lemme try to find the post…but basically it’s strong Sib-inspired.
9 = Flat
Ctrl+9 = Double Flat
8 = Sharp
Ctrl+8 = Double Sharp
7 = Nat
6 = Whole
5 = Half
4 = Quarter
3 = Eigth
2 = 16th
1 = 32nd
Ctrl+3 = 64th
Ctrl+2 = 128th
Ctrl+1 = 256th
/ = Accent
Ctrl+/ = Marcato
Asterisk = Staccato
Ctrl+ Asterisk = Staccatissmo
Minus = Tenuto
Ctrl + Minus = Staccato Tenuto
I also remap the pitche changes so Octave Up/Down is just Ctrl+Up/Down
The one binding I have (had) in Sib that I can’t duplicate in Dorico is Ctrl+. for double dot.
2 Likes
Thanks Tyler, that is actually quite helpful! I’m getting a little better at the traditional QWERTY method. I am going to customize even a little further the NUM pad and change the modifier keys used for pitch up and pitch down…
I have question question for y’all. Is there a way to assign a midi command to the same functionality that is provided by the A-G QWERTY keys? In other words I’d like to configure my midi keyboard so that middle C is the same as hitting the QWERTY “C” key…which means the nearest C, (not absolutely middle C).
ideally I’d like to also assign the C above Middle C as the C Pitch UP, and so on…
I could not figure out how to do this in the key commands window if its possible to do…
Ah. The regular up/down keys are bound to move up/down (e.g. the stave above/below) specifically within the kStepTimeInput context. It’s that context you need your shortcuts in, so you can’t bind your shortcuts without removing the existing ones.
You’d need to unbind them from those, via a “DELETE” string in your user JSON.
The reason that numpad + and - work is that they’re defined in the kGlobal context (for Play.Rewind and Play.Forward). My bindings only overrule them in steptime entry.
2 Likes
Thanks! It’s fiddly, but I think I might do it. If I do, and I get into the flow of it, I’ll post a couple screengrabs to show how compelling I think it is…
FWIW, I don’t think I could deal with losing Up and Down for moving the caret up and down staves. At least, I’d need to bind those commands to something else. Leaving note input, hitting up or down and then going back into note input is usually an option, but if there are (particularly tied) notes in intervening staves then I really need the caret invoked throughout.
This is a fascinating discussion. One of the reasons I like copying existing scores is to get faster at note input; for what it’s worth, I’ve found Dorico’s default laptop commands work well for me, and muscle memory is gradually kicking in. Like Leo, I still have some vestigial Sibelius muscle memory!
And the better I get, the more it feels natural to move from paper to Dorico, pretty early in the composing process. I’m tempted to try FredGUnn’s pitch-before-rhythm technique, especially for sketching. But I still find it much better to sketch on paper.
1 Like
Like others here, though in other circumstances (e.g. in rehearsals) I can relate the name of a note to what I see on the score, when entering notes into the computer I cannot. Thus inputting note letters on a QWERTZ keyboard is a painful process for me. What I do with my little LKP25 (when not swearing at it) is to let my left hand move by interval, and I hear in my head the notes that I am hitting (it does need more force than would produce musical results on other keyboards). Occasionally I am a note out for quite a long time; but I can fix that by ALT up/down.
i have to say that I cannot imagine basic composing straight into the computer. A piece of paper is much better for the initial ideas and sketches. Refining or instrumenting these first thoughts is a different matter, and then I can use Dorico – so it does save time in the long run.
But just now I decided to try relearning the position of the note lengths on the keypad, to see if it is faster, as expected, than the mouse. As has been pointed out above, unlike Sibelius, there is no little onscreen picture of the keypad encoding. So I dug out the normally useful Dorico Quick Reference Card:
Is this the MAC layout? The numbers are in the wrong order top to bottom on my PC keypad… Or is this a since-corrected early version, and as valuable as a postage stamp with the Queen’s head upside down?
Dont worry: I have an old envelope here and a pencil and can make my own.
David