There have been multiple posts about this in the past, but the solutions given there do not seem to work for me using Dorico 5.
I have a passage consisting of a series of 8th notes played tremolo.
Since tremolo playback does not seem to work correctly, I want to try to replace each of these eighth notes with a 16th-note triplet. However, if I select an 8th note (as shown above) and type 3:2x into the tuplets dialog, Dorico creates a triplet not out of that note, but out of that note plus the first half of the next note, as shown below.
Turning the selected note into a 16th note first does not help, and it makes no difference whether the note alone is selected, or the note plus the immediately following 16th-note rest. Neither gives the desired result, as shown below:
I don’t want to crowd this post with more screenshots, but for the record, the solution (as suggested in a thread from a couple of years ago) to set the stop line first at the 16th-note rest makes absolutely no difference, at least with Dorico 5.1: the result is exactly the same.
This operation is fiddly enough that I would just enter the first triplet fresh, repeat it, and repitch.
The most efficient way I can think of to accomplish this without re-entering notes is quite cumbersome:
Insert mode on
Select all the notes and dot them
Set the grid to 16th and AltU to divide all the notes into three 16ths
Still in Insert mode, make a triplet on each set of 3 notes
(It would be nice if one could copy the triplet with Alt-click with insert and chord modes both on, but the modes are mutually exclusive.)
About the stop line method: You need to set it on the next eighth. Then you can make a triplet from the one note, and get two 16th rests following. But I don’t recommend either of these methods. The first one is easier.
Thank you, that is indeed what I was afraid of: yet another Dorico gotcha.
I may have misunderstood your instructions (and I realize the technique was not recommended) but when I followed those steps, the result was that the correct notes were grouped as triplets - with a rest after each group. So even that doesn’t seem to really work.
I gave up on making each note a series of triplets and instead just converted them to 16ths (i.e., simulating a 2-stroke tremolo), copying and pasting the first 16th note into the created rest. In combination with flz’ing in the flutes, which are doubling the violins here, the result is very close to what I want. But the beaming Dorico produced by default was bizarre and had to be adjusted.
(Also: the length of existing slurs appears to be based on a number of notes rather than a time span, so the slur kept getting shorter. If I tried to paste a 16th-note into the next rest after the end of a slur that has been reduced in length this way, the note showed up in the next bar, after the note on which the slur originally ended. This behavior looks bizarre to me. Is this a known bug?)
I convert to and from tuplets quite frequently, and while I agree the current system is a little bit fiddly (I wish you could simply select notes, tell it the new value you want, and voila have it automatically convert, but unfortunately it doesn’t work that way).
But here’s my method which has been working well for me and is honestly pretty quick once you get used to it. It does use the stop line which you said you’ve tried but not sure maybe if you’re missing a step or not.
Using your example: I would enable the stop line right after the last note you wish to convert (let’s say the third note). Then turn insert mode ON. Next select 16th notes which will then slide them over into normal 16ths. Finally select the tuplet popover to convert 3:2 (if that’s what you’re going for).
Once finished turn OFF insert mode and the stop line.
If you’re going to repeat the exact rhythmic phrase numerous times or in a very specific way, I sometimes find it easier to repeat the tuplet itself and just re-pitch manually. Or repeat and then go back with my midi keyboard using lock duration in write mode.
All told it takes me a couple more seconds at most. Otherwise I would just re-enter the notes from scratch as Mark suggested.
Then I wonder why you didn’t just use the slashes? Same result.
There is also Reset Beaming, so you don’t have to fix it manually.
Slur endpoints attach to the beat positions of the notes they point to. If either of those notes disappears, the slur will shorten to the nearest note under the slur, if any; otherwise it is deleted. It’s not clear to me exactly what you did, but I don’t think there is a bug with slurs.
Of course this kind of splitting operation would be very easy in a midi editor. Perhaps one day Dorico can allow something like a triplet grid.
The method in your last paragraph turns out to work - I just tried it. With the stop line on the next eighth, the 16th note / 16th note rest tuples nicely into a triplet that includes two rests, without subsuming the next eighth and generating nonsense. The rests can then be populated with notes. Thank you.
And yes, Janus, that is what I was trying to do. I tried your method as well and couldn’t get it to work. Dotting an 8th note in a series of 8th notes causes the next note to become a 16th note, which makes it harder to then get a triplet of that next note.
What I did was to select a series of 8th notes connected by a slur, and turned them into 16th notes. That leaves a 16th note rest between each pair of notes. I proceeded to paste each 16th note into the 16th-note rest that follows it. With each paste, the slur shortened by one 8th note.
Then, under some circumstances I can’t reproduce reliably, pasting the note on which the slur ends now into its adjacent rest causes the note to appear not at the selection, but past the point where the slur used to end. THAT is what seems like it has to be a bug to me. (I could be wrong of course, it could be a feature I don’t understand.)
You must do the whole sequence of steps with Insert mode on. (That allows Dorico to stretch each 8th note to a dotted 8th and shift the following note along a 16th)
The whole transformation takes just 6 commands/keystrokes (i select . split ; 3 enter) - though your key to invoke the tuplet popover may differ.
I don’t use a stopline for transformations like this, because I know that when done the total musical time is the same and Dorico will return everything in later bars back to where they were originally.
Ok, now I understand - I didn’t know what you meant by Insert mode. The manual refers to the various tabs as “modes”, and there isn’t an “Insert” tab. You mean to select Write->Insert first, I think. That does work, except for needing to adjust the slur (or delete it - does slurring repeated notes even do anything?) - and of course, the beam grouping.
I’m still not clear on what Dorico’s rule is for the end of the slur - it certainly does NOT stay at the same beat position after the triplet operation, but moves forward a certain number of beats that depends somehow on the length of the series of 8th notes that you’ve transformed this way.
