Not necessarily. The step from some of the legacy versions to the current ones was far from subtle, but whether or not we could perceive further improvements isn’t clear at all I think. I mean, suppose, hypothetically, that a legacy version ran at the project sample rate and had a not so complex algorithm - and then the new version a) had a more complex algorithm and b) ran oversampled. Is there still room for improvement there? I’m not convinced there is.
As for comparisons I think it really up to the individual to test it out to see if it’s worth the investment. What I will say though is that something as simple as a reverb might not be an obvious or significant improvement when isolated, but then when mixing the whole of the track can improve significantly with a better reverb. And I think it’s possibly what Rolf experienced; that all the “minor” differences add up to a whole that is clearly better.
Perhaps if we could fill a room with Pultecs and use them on every track we might detect something more achievable for the future, huh? Or maybe we’re almost there.
For now, I really do find myself pretty satisfied using a very clean digital EQ, and some good saturation as needed, on some nicely recorded tracks. Compressing things cleanly, but adding in some smashed parallel compression to taste, and I feel like I’m 98% of the way there.
Michael Brauer raves about how this Germanium compressor works on the mix bus. But the thing is, it’s got a very unique EQ signature. So match that EQ signature, roughly, apply a decent Cubase compressor, and give it a touch of extra vibe with some saturation and I can move on, all without spending $179… I simply cannot hear a difference, and it may be because I just don’t care enough to want to. I guess it’s like appreciating wine. You don’t care until you’re in the know and then you do care, I’ve just been at this mixing thing for over 2 decades now and I still struggle. Ah, except for my Avalon. So, I guess I know quality when I experience it. But mostly, it’s about the music, for me, and whether I like it or not. Everything else can be 90% good.
I prefer the sound of UAD plugins. The Waves plugins bundle is more versatile than UAD’s stuff (noise reduction, instruments, special plugins for vocals etc).
Sure, it could be that you don’t care enough or want to hear a difference. It could also be that you nail “it” for a song. With all these cases though my question is always what the behavior is of the device we’re trying to emulate, and if the ‘separated’ DIY emulation responds the same.
It’s possible that both your clean compressor and saturator is fairly linear in their behavior and that the germanium compressor isn’t. So pushing a signal into it yields different demands on settings on your DIY-chain depending on how hot that signal is, in order to match it properly.
Now, of course you don’t have to match it exactly, you might be ‘close enough’, but for the sake of this conversation it could be a difference you don’t run into because of what you’re running through that chain and because of the levels you’re using. It could be that for other content and levels the you’d need to tweak accordingly and ultimately automate settings to match.
I don’t really think this is necessarily true for this particular device, but I also don’t think it’s as easy as “Oh well, just get a compressor, EQ and saturation plugin-chain going and you can emulate any behavior”, certainly not without getting seriously slowed down.
If it’s a $180 cost then over the course of say 3 years how much time has been saved? Then how much are you paid hourly? 180/3/52 = 1 dollar and 15 cents per week. Know what I mean? You’d need to save 9 hours worth of work in order to pay it off, assuming a very moderate $20/hr wage.
Don’t get me wrong, I actually use about 90% stock plugins in Nuendo when I mix, but it’s also post-production. I left music mixing behind a few years back. Just saying that I’m certainly not dissing stock plugs, just that I do think there is a difference and sometimes it matters.
Well, maybe I can afford that Germanium compressor. Look what you’ve gone and done…
I agree, though, I just have to know that I want that particular compressor first, then the investment is small. But I’ve got too many comps already that I don’t yet fully understand.
I think the issue may be that I can easily hear the sound of, say, an 1176 and a dbx 160 in my head and will reach for those sounds, and specifically the sounds of the UAD 1176 black face one, and the Waves dbx 160… but I can’t hear the sound of these others so well… and it may be more mixbus compressors in general that I have trouble with as they are acting on the whole mix, and by the time I’m at the mixbus, I have much less use for compression, the way I mix. I do like the SSL bus compressor, though, for the little bounce I can hear that it gives to the whole track. But, you know, it’s so subtle to me, so often… just like the difference between these 2 companies we’re talking about here, for me… I can see, though, that it matters what I’m pushing through these things and how hard, and that I really do need to study these things like a wine class. That’s a great point. Each compressor needs to be put through the ringer, tried on many different types of sources.
Your right. I should have clarified. Waves did go back. It’s was more the fact that they thought…as did minimal with current that you can just change your entire model without informing nor having a good transition model for previous customers that have spent thousands.
controversially lol I actually use acustica plugins myself. I think they sound pretty G. That being said, a company that says they can’t improve performance and then is shown by hackers that they can only to attack said customers because they got exposed. The optics aren’t great…
I have a lot of friends in the visual effects/3D industry. While that side has seem to have gone exclusively subscription for most major things in that world, I have a feeling the same will not occur for the music side.
At least every indication so far is that unlike the Visual model that only offers subs our side will allow subscription and purchase models. Which is the best outcome In my opine.
In the LA2-compressor there are presets and for me as a musician and singer its very nice to not need to dig deep into release and attack, its like 2knobs on the plugin and thats all I need, it sounds fantastic. I am a beginner but I am not an idiot, I was flabergasted by the UA plugins and this can not be some “hype” I knew nothing about UA, not even that their products are more expensive than waves. So, I agree.
I like what UA does to my vocals and instruments. Thats it. If thats hype, I love hype. I have been strugling with my mixes for many months and never get happy, then by chans I tried the UA plugins I mention and it was all comming to place, this was it, I was happy. If someone else likes the mix I dont know but I like it. And you need less experience, the plugins are easy to use. So for me, I am happy.
Ah, you’re not even aware of the “hype” and you just prefer those UAD plugs. Well, that says something, I think. You’re using your ears which is the best thing. I applaud you.
Just watch out for the chorus of internet folks out there who diss Waves plugins for what, I think, is no particularly great reason. That’s just my opinion. I’ve enjoyed my Waves experience, especially with their tech support. I’ve also enjoyed my UA experience.
So maybe they complement each other, if I can afford it I would like to have both subscriptions. I think its fun to have a lot of plugins and I do find use for them, they are not just “chasing tail”-gear for me.
Let’s also be aware of an “industry bias.” For years, that bias was tilted strongly for Waves, or hardware. It may be tilted now more for UAD, it seems. Home studio folks tend to follow these trends, especially those who want to become serious mix engineers. I question these trends. But as I said, I don’t know. A great song, though, is not going to be ruined by plugin choice.
On the other hand, if I didn’t question the trends, I would save lots of time. And that is smarter. Since Rolf is a musician, I think his best bet is to stick with UAD, regardless, and just make music.
We should also remember that Waves was cracked nonstop at least back in the day. I remember one studio I worked in where a computer tech guy was hired only to set the system up to a specific default but as a “bonus” installed a ton of cracked plugins. I hated it because I then had to manage a bunch of crap that wasn’t official, but it was really the norm in a lot of studios and home setups back then (over ten years ago).
UA on the other hand had their plugins locked to their hardware DSP so only those who could or wanted to pay used it. In the beginning their stuff made sense because of that extra DSP and later it made sense because their plugins really did sound a lot better (not going to get into today’s situation).
With that in mind I think there’s been a bias in the market place because one group was really large because of cracked software, and the other group was generally more professional because money was spent on the plugins.
So it’s kind of easy to see why things have been viewed the way they have.
I agree with you. A good song won’t be ruined by choosing a plugin.
Mixing is a long learning process and I believe that there are people who are more skilled and talented than others and that has absolutely nothing to do with the plugins used either.
Considering that the tracks of a song were recorded in the best conditions. I sincerely believe that software like Cubase Pro with only its plugins is enough to create an excellent mix.
The conditions are simple, good judgment in decision making, placement of instruments in the panorama and the depth needed, balance of instruments and good ears to properly equalize each instrument or track individually, in relation to each other to others. The right compression for each instrument or not, groups or mix. Saturate the tracks or not, only choices and decisions to make, all this while hoping that the environment is conducive to producing a good mix.
Not sure if I absolutely need the Waves or UAD Plugins and if so, should I use them properly.
It’s not all about owning a Mercedes, you have to know how to drive.
