unable to edit pause times in cd/montage

i have a 7-track album sequenced in a montage. i crossfaded two of the tracks together, and since then i have been unable to type-edit the pauses between ANY of the tracks in the montage.

i can drag the tracks around, which does change the pause time, but i can’t TYPE new times into the pause fields of the CD Wizard

a bug? or is there some way to get it to work again…?

WaveLab Elements or Pro?

Did you try adjusting the times in the Clips tab? This is where I usually do precise timing changes between clips. For precise marker placement changes, I type those in the Markers tab.

I really only use the CD Wizard to make the initial markers and ISRC Codes, and then again to re-quantize markers to CD Frames.

A picture or GIF/video of what you’re trying to do could be helpful.

Also, why does dragging not change the pause times? I think you need to be clear if you’re talking about clips or CD Track Markers.

WL9 pro, by the way…

dragging does change pause times… it’s the only way i can… typing in new values doesn’t work.

keep in mind, this only happens if i have a crossfade present in the montage… otherwise i can type in new values up in the CD window just fine.

i just tried typing new values in the CLIPS tab, and that works fine… thank you…

i don’t know the difference between the CD tab and the CLIPS tab… or, rather, when i should use one over the other…

where is the command to snap ID markers to frames?

i just noticed that when i changed the “pre gap” in the clip window, the “pause” in the CD window didn’t change…

i guess these are different things?

sorry for the simple questions… i’m just not 100% used to wavelab yet! the way it handles montages, while very deep, is overly complex compared to similar programs (on the mac)

I would not use the CD Wizard to move clips around in an existing montage. The Clips tab lets you control the start/end times (and other things) of the actual audio files, and the Markers tab lets you change and manage the marker timing placements among other things.

By default, the CD Wizard binds the CD Track Markers to the start/end of the appropriate clip, but you can always unbind the markers from clips and/or manage markers separately from the clips in the Markers tab settings.

When you say, “otherwise i can type in new values up in the CD window just fine”. Do you mean the CD Wizard or the CD Tab?

Either way, I think you would be best to manage the placement of your audio files/clips in the Clip tab if the montage is already started.

PRE-GAP in the CLIPS tab is the amount of space between a clip’s starting point, and the end of the previous clip. So in other words, it’s the space between two audio clips. The PRE-GAP of CD Tracks can be different, depending on your marker placements and marker types.

If you check the “Functions” menu of the clips tab, you can choose “Align Clips” to move multiple clips around in an existing montage, but if you need to just move one, I usually just use the Clips tab. If you keep Ripple settings to Global, changing a clips position will keep the relationship of the following clips the same.

So, you have to be clear if you’re trying to adjust the spacing between audio clips (audio files), or the spacing between your track end and start markers which results in a negative time count between songs. If you use CD Track Splice markers, then there is no actual pause time (as it’s traditionally called), because the spacing between songs is built into the track times and not between track markers like the old days.

Once you are done rearranging a montage, you can go back to the CD Wizard, and turn off all options in the CD Wizard except for the option “Quantize CD Markers to Nearest CD Frame”. I do this so often that I made a CD Wizard preset with just that setting active. I hope someday PG adds a special shortcut to “Quantize CD Markers to Nearest CD Frame” so it can be done without using the CD Wizard.

The CD Wizard is great when you first lay out a CD, and to re-quantize CD Track Markers if things move around, but for additional editing of clip timings and marker placements, I would use the Clips tab to change the timing of audio files in the montage, and then the Markers tab is to change marker placements if you are not happy with their placement by the CD Wizard.

thanks, justin

let me go thru your reply bit by bit here, without quoting for the sake of screen space!

  • ok… no CD Wizard for moving around clips. check. will do. this is one of my main gripes with WaveLab, despite totally loving the program… it has a steep learning curve, no thanks to a poorly written manual. the manual does a good job of explaining what commands DO, but never says when or why you’d want to use something. i consider myself an “expert” in these fields, having used BIAS Peak for almost 20 years and many other programs. i’m no beginner to any of this, but i am a beginning in WL and the whole work flow…

  • so… given that, WHEN do you use the CD window and CD Wizard? my workflow, that i came up with myself when i build CDs is this:

  • drag a bunch of WAV files into the new montage window

  • select all and drag the whole lot so it starts at the beginning (it seems to drop in my files starting at a random place)

  • go to the CD window and do the CD wizard to put a standard spacing between tracks

  • use the CD wizard to enter CD TXT and metadata

  • go back to the montage window to work on any fades, and move things around

    \

  • so, it sounds like i should use the CLIPS window if i want to type in new gap amounts of edit start/end times.

  • one question for you… at what point in the process do you call up the CD Wizard? i do it right at the beginning… should i be doing it more near the end?

  • i’ll look into the CLIP “functions”… as i never checked out that window or menu before.

  • as for your question about spacing… i was trying to adjust the space between audio files AND track markers… as they’re all the same… start and end times (except the one crossfade)

  • thanks for the tip about the CD Wizard at the end with your custom setting…


    from your post i think i have a better idea of a better workflow… which i’ll try tonight…

and i’ll go over the manual again…

thanks!

It’s entirely possible the CD Wizard could work for changing clip times, I just don’t use it. I think it’s intended as more of a starting point. After I have the clips inserted in the correct order, and the timing and fades dialed in on the clips is when I call up the CD wizard.

Then I also use the CD Wizard with ONLY “Quantize CD Track Markers To Nearest CD Frame” selected after I have everything else done and before I do any rendering. I do double check that the markers are still in a good position after quantizing.

I’ll make a video of what works for me here later this evening.

been exploring the CLIPS window… started my whole montage from scratch…

running into a few problem…

if i get a gap/pause of 0 seconds and then run the CD CONFORMITY command, it gives me an error saying my track starts don’t match the number of my track ends…

so… not sure what that’s about, all i did was butt two clips together with no pause…


also, shouldn’t a CD have a 2-second pre gap before the firs track? this put an 853ms gap before the first track…

i’m afraid to drag the two tracks to crossfade again, as i know that’ll generate the same error…

WaveLab manages the 2 second pregap at the start of a CD/DDP for you. You can’t see it, but if you make a PQ/Audio CD Report, you’ll see it in the report. You can also have the report exclude the pre-gap which is good for making a report of non CD releases.

I would have to see a picture of your marker window when you get the CD Conformity error but it’s probably not hard to solve.

I will PM you a link to a low budget but hopefully helpful video I made showing the basic layout workflow that works for me.

I put in a feature request for this a long time ago, but it hasn’t changed yet. Soundblade and Samplitude/Sequoia can re-order CD Tracks without the strict locking rules that Wavelab uses when allowing CD Tracks to be moved, or in this case to modify a pause.

It’s not worth reading my whole thread because I go on and on and on, but the gist of what I wanted to have done was the following, when I said:

“I’m talking exclusively about reordering in the CD List. That’s where any real CD track reorder can take place, and that’s where all operations are currently locked out if a track starts or ends with a splice mark, has end and start marks in same place, or if a track marker intersects a clip. Any of those conditions lock out track re-order, and they ALL need to be unlocked (as in the other programs) to make the CD track reorder function useful at all. Also end-gaps must be included in the move, instead of pre-gaps. The other programs include end-gaps not pre-gaps…”

https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=189&t=48128

It’s like the ease of re-sequencing/re-ordering in iTunes by dragging tracks in a list (or in your case, moving a track or changing a pause time by the numbers), which you can do in Wavelab, but only if the cd tracks meet strict conditions. And once you run into one of those conditions on one song, it makes the whole function unusable. The other programs don’t have those rules and they work well because of it. They move the CD Tracks while taking into account the underlying clips, but without the strict rules.

(yes, even with crossfades). You have to re-adjust the crossfades afterward, but at least the other programs get you close.

On this topic, please aware of this new WaveLab 9 feature:
2016-08-02_15-29-50.png

Very nice. I never noticed this but I guess I would have looked in the Clips tab before the CD tab for something like this.

I appreciate that improvement Philippe, but I still can’t re-order any normal montage I have using the CD Track list. If you’re using splice markers, you can’t move anything. If your end and start markers are at the same point you can’t move anything. IMO you should be able to move anything no matter what, because it’s unusable otherwise. That’s what the other programs do and they do some figuring to consider where the ends are and where the starts are, but they let you move anything when doing the figuring.

As it is I’m doing it all with clips, but it’s a lot more work, because I’m adding temporary markers to serve as placeholders for End, binding them, multiselecting clips which constitute a cd track, carefully moving them, etc, etc. I just wish you could do it in the CD Track list, and have the program figure what should be moved where if you’re moving CD tracks with many underlying clips or crossfades at track points.

IMO, it should be exactly like if you render Regions/CD tracks from your CD master montage but treating everything as if only Splice marks were being used (even if you’re using end/start marks, treating the start marks as splices), open those renders in a new montage butted together and then re-order those in the CD list, with no space between. That would be the sync I would like to see when moving the complex tracks in the CD window.

Somehow the other programs do it. I"m sure they do a lot of figuring but they do it.

I typically have multiple CD tracks in one clip. Are you saying that other programs would break such a clip into multiple clips to enable moving CD tracks around? That sounds like something I’d much rather do for myself.

Paul

I honestly don’t know what Samplitude or Soundblade would do with that. But it’s obvious to me I would have to splice at those track points to re-order, which should be very quick and easy in most cases. I don’t think that’s a reason not to make this much more functional. As in the other programs.

btw, Taylor12k is absolutely right about entering or changing times in the track list, pauses or start times. It only works as expected in the most ordinary montages with 2 second gaps and end and start markers. In all other cases, markers move and clips don’t, pause times all get locked out from modification for no apparent reason. It all seems very wrong and unexpected, and I really don’t see why it can’t work as expected.

Has anyone else tried this? I get the same thing. Also, after, if I type in a start time, the start marker moves, not the track (clip).

I didn’t try this because I there was some confusion with the initial wording to me as to what was trying to be changed. Where are you guys trying to type an edit to a time value? In the CD Tab? In the Clip tab?

What field exactly are you trying to edit?

Yes in the CD tab. The pause and start times in the CD tab.