unable to edit pause times in cd/montage

It works as expected in a “normal” montage with normal 2 gaps and markers, but not in a montage with splice markers, or overlap clips, etc. Then all the functions get very buggy. It’s my whole point about not being able to re-order correctly in the CD tab / list by drag and drop the track names like you can in other programs. It’s all related to the original problem here with modifying the times in the list.

Yes. I see what you guys mean now. I guess I’ve never tried to edit any times in the CD tab. I usually only manually type/edit clip times or marker times in their respective tabs.

I do see how when two clips are touching, then you can no longer edit pause times in the CD tab, which is strange.

But, I guess I still prefer to edit either the clips or the markers in their respective tabs. For the CD tab, I really just use it to verify the CD-Text/ISRC and see the track times but not to edit anything. Oh, and of course to assign CD Track Groups but other than that I guess I never thought to try and edit in that CD tab and just stick to trying in the Clips and Markers tab.

Maybe PG has a reason for the behavior but it does seem kind of strange.

Thanks for checking it out Justin

Taylor12k is absolutely right about entering or changing times in the track list, pauses or start times. It only works as expected in the most ordinary montages with 2 second gaps and end and start markers. In all other cases, markers move and clips don’t, pause times all get locked out from modification for no apparent reason. It all seems very wrong and unexpected, and I really don’t see why it can’t work as expected.

Can you show me a picture of a CD track sequence where this problem occurs?
By nature, the definition of a Splice marker is “no-pause separation”. Hence don’t expect to enter a pause before this marker. A pause is the distance between a end marker and a start marker.

I would like to recall that a CD track is one clip, but could also be any sequence of clips. Hence this is not as simple as “ordering a row in a list”. Moreover, when a splice marker is used to split a clip, it seems reasonable WaveLab will not split this clip (else we enter more difficulties, like fade time, clip effects…).

I’ll come up with some examples PG. I wouldn’t expect Wavelab to split clips, as would be required in pwhodges example. It’s quick and easy enough for me to split clips manually beforehand at CD track markers if necessary, but it wouldn’t be often for me.

My main gripe is that for re-sequencing by drag and drop in the CD track list, it won’t move tracks with Splice marks, even if they’re on clip edges or between clips. That makes re-sequencing in the CD Track list (as I’d like to do) completely unusable for me, and why I always do it in the Clips tab as a workaround.

But like I said the other programs get around this even if “splice” marks overlap clips, because they know what you want to do.

My main gripe is that for re-sequencing by drag and drop in the CD track list, it won’t move tracks with Splice marks, even if they’re on clip edges or between clips.

WaveLab reasons in terms on start / end markers. Each such region (that might contains several CD tracks with splice markers), can be reordered relatively to the other regions.

Sorry PG I don’t understand what you mean.
CD Tracks defined with CD Track Splice Markers simply cannot be moved in the Track List. When you try to drag them in the CD Track List, you get an error message something like “cannot move within a track”.

CD Tracks defined with CD Track Splice markers should be able to move, as in the other programs. I’m just asking that this be changed in Wavelab to allow this, to treat the CD Track Splice marker as the end of one track and beginning of the next track for purposes of move. The other programs can do this because they’re programmed to allow it. Wavelab should allow it too because it’s a very basic useful way of re-sequencing an album in a mastering program.

CD Tracks defined with CD Track Start and CD Track End markers CAN be moved. That’s not an issue with me.

Sorry, I just don’t understand what you mean.
When you say (“region, that might contain several CD tracks with splice markers, can be reordered”). Do you mean:

As example

CD Track 1: CD Start and End Marker
CD Track 2: CD Start and End Marker
CD Track 3: CD Start Marker
CD Track 4: CD Splice Marker
CD Track 5: CD Splice Marker and End Marker
CD Track 6: CD Start and End Marker

Do you mean CD Tracks 3 thru 5 can be multi-selected and moved in the list ahead of CD Track 2, without getting an error message ?

If that’s the case, I personally don’t even see how that’s useful, as a separate rule for CD Track Splice markers. It might make some special-case technical sense, but if the individual CD Track Splice Tracks are locked, it makes a basic CD re-sequence function in the CD Tab CD Tracks list unusable.

The other programs treat CD Track Splice markers as beginning and end of the individual CD tracks for purposes of move, which makes sense to them and me.

Do you mean CD Tracks 3 thru 5 can be multi-selected and moved in the list ahead of CD Track 2, without getting an error message ?

Yes.
The original purpose of CD splice markers, is to set a separation of CD Tracks inside clips, eg. for live recordings. Clips should not be splitted automatically when reordering. This is why reordering is not possible in that case.
If you want free reordering, don’t use splice markers.

I ONLY use splice markers anymore because it’s safer. The other programs can deal with that when re-sequencing.

I still wouldn’t ask that clips be splitted automatically, that’s a different consideration. (although I don’t think it’s a horrible idea). Throw an error message if a CD Splice marker is on top of a clip, but 99% of the time that’s not going to come up for me. And if I need to split a clip to get drag and drop to work, I’ll do it manually.

I’m just asking that CD Splice Tracks be unlocked for moving, like the other programs.

I use CD Splice Markers only, even between clips, because it’s the safest thing to do these days.

@bob99

Did you try this when using splice markers but with no clips touching each other? I thought I could at least make that work which I know doesn’t help, but might shed some light.

My computers are shut down for the weekend so I can’t double check but I also only use CD Track Splice Markers and if I remember correctly, I was able to change the times by typing in the CD tab as long as the clips weren’t touching or overlapping.

Taylor12k, you’re probably far beyond this in getting things working, but I think I know why you were originally getting this in the CD tab. When you crossfaded the 2 tracks, your CD track start marker probably moved earlier than your CD track end marker (see pic). That will put asterisks in the track list, and the montage won’t check conformity. It will also make any pause time changes not work, no matter how you spin the numbers in the pause field.

To fix it delete the track end marker and change the start marker to a splice marker in the markers tab. Then your pause time changes will work.

There are other oddities changing values in the CD tab: changing start times moves only the cd track markers, not the clips as I would expect.

It’s probably better to do preliminary work like this in the clips tab as Justin suggests. That’s where I do all my preliminary work. But you could make pause time changes work in the CD tab as long as the montage passes conformity at all times.

From what I can tell a CD Track End Marker can’t be at exactly the same place as a CD Track Start Marker in Wavelab 9. The End Marker must be a tiny bit earlier than the Start Marker for conformity. Not sure how much earlier. Also you might be missing a CD Track End Marker or the End Marker might be slightly after the Start Marker. Zoom way in and check things. Or use a Splice Marker instead.

Although I can have a CD Track End Marker and a CD Track Start Marker in exactly the same place in Wavelab 8.0.4 with conformity, so I’m not sure what that’s about.

Thanks Justin, but typing or spinning the start times only moves the markers for me, not the Track/Clip.

But really I’m only concerned with drag and dropping the track names in the list to re-order tracks, to re-sequence an album. I wouldn’t be manually entering start time modifications.

But you can’t drag and drop tracks in the list which use CD Splice Markers no matter what, like you can with tracks that use normal CD Start and End Markers. That’s what I’d like to see changed.

But you can’t drag and drop tracks in the list which use CD Splice Markers no matter what, like you can with tracks that use normal CD Start and End Markers. That’s what I’d like to see changed.

I would say this is a legitimate request. For long, peoples have mastered for CDs, with all the related pause stuff. This is why the marker is design is as such. But with other delivery context, using CD splice markers only (provided they don’t cross clips), is a tendency. And WaveLab should provide a solution.

Thank you Philippe !! You’re the best !