Unintuitive User Interface

Dan

I picked on Q because it was the first shortcut I had to use, and obviously had to RTFM to find it out. I vaguely recall there being a C7 button on the right toolbar, but that seems to have disappeared.

By the way, if C was reserved for something much more important, can you tell me off the top of your head what that might be? …exactly!

I’m glad you’re a happy customer. I’m not… and I’m sure I’m not alone. Yamaha / Steinberg / Dorico can listen to me (and us), or just stuff their heads in the sand and lose customers. It really doesn’t affect me either way to be honest.

Seriously though, Dorico Team.

Please sit down and have a meeting to discuss creating a second “Workspace” UI, based on an analysis of real user requirements, newbie requirements and a range of real-world workflows from different people.

It really will transform your otherwise excellent software into a world-leader.

Well, consider the signposts “debug markers” that show you things that are going on behind the scenes and let you figure out if everything goes as planned. I also hope “1/4,1” is a typo, that would mean a 1/4 bar with one quarter pickup… :wink:

About your other point: Dorico’s editing is geared towards top-down approach, meaning you change something usually not on the page itself, but rather on the back-end, in options and settings. Imagine having to doubleclick every staff label in a large orchestra separately, that would take a lot of time. Instead it saves time to just click in a settings dialog and change it there, where you can also promote the change to default, so all future projects use the same setting!

Well,

  1. Many years. I bought Dorico on day one, installed it and thoroughly hated it… I added a player, assigned an instrument, and then I got presented with a single quarter rest on an otherwise empty screen… :scream:
    That was shocking, to say the least. I had a lot of experience in Sibelius, but couldn’t even enter “Mary had a little lamb” in Dorico. Plus, it turned out, transposition operations took half a minute to complete (you could even watch the change ripple through the score!) and there were no chord symbols, which made the app utterly useless for me. That was in 2016, nine years ago.
    But I waited for 6-8 months, and slowly, the features I needed came, and were useful.
  2. Because I’m honest, and I sometimes have to think a little where stuff is… Remember, the point of the video was not for me to brag about how quick I am using the app, but to show that it can do Monroe quite easily… :wink:

I’ll make another video for you and use only the mouse and available menus…

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It’s reserved for the pitch C.

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Shift C is the Clefs Popover. C is used in Note Entry for … well, … C.

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There are important and big countries on this world, who consider the lack of courtesy as a sign of weakness. China and Russia come into my mind, so do a lot of European cultures.
Please let us keep a friendly tone, we might need each other at some point.

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My “cheatsheet” when I was learning Dorico (mildly annotated for this thread):

For my money, the “out-of-the-box” defaults seem very well thought out for fluent English-speakers, and I found them quickly memorable, FWIW. (Full disclosure: I’m never fully comfortable conflating the term intuitive as applied to learning powerful and complex software tools with mnemonic shortcuts for input.)

I could see an argument for reprogramming one’s commands so that Q stood for Cues (:slightly_smiling_face:), but then anything else for Chords would be pretty “random.”

This all strikes my as a pretty fine tradeoff for having all of the popovers accompanied simply by shift rather than additional modifiers. (There are enough of those to have to memorize for other aspects of keyboard input.)

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Here ya go! :innocent: :+1:

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Here’s the cheatsheet I used when I was learning Dorico:

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And…
Dorico-Quick-Reference-Card.pdf (230.0 KB)

Ooops… better
Dorico-Quick-Reference-Card-v5.pdf (313.2 KB)

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I found it easy to remember the (shift-)G for ‘Generalbass’.

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Haha! Yes, the Write Menu screen-grab is great. But when I’m learning I finding that reinventing the wheel by typing up a differently organized version can help get things lodged in my at-times recalcitrant brain.

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Ok Benji. You’ve convinced me to give it a try for another few days. I shall re-install and get a coffee (or ten) and take it gently.

k_b: I wasn’t trying to show a lack of courtesy, I was genuinely suggesting that the Dorico Team have a meeting to discuss how to more easily engage new users. For me, that would be a second ‘newbie’ workspace. As the Dorico team are obviously enthusiastic, engaging and helpful, I would love to see them retain users that share my frustrations but don’t stick their head above the parapet and say it (albeit “acerbically”).

Thank you everyone for the cheat sheets, and for remaining polite and helpful in the face of my provocation.

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I would really love it if this menu could be equally alphabetically sorted in other languages. Finding something in this rather long list when it’s not sorted because you use Dorico e.g. in German is a bit of a mess.

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…about what you’d expect from a comprehensive bit of software that beggars our intuition, a limiting factor unique to each of us. It is daunting at first. Then a few days or weeks later, you’re putting things together without even thinking about it any more. Take it from a guy with a room temperature IQ.

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Anyone know how I copy a phrase, and then paste it on the last quaver of an empty bar?

I’ve found a workaround, but if I’m going to learn to do this properly then I need to knuckle down and do it ‘by the book’.

Ta.

Select 1st note of phrase, shift-click last note of phrase (entire phrase is now selected). Hit ctl/cmd c then double click on the empty bar then 7, space,6, space, ctrl/cmd+v.

Another possibility: select the phrase, scroll to the last bar and press Alt/Opt. If you have the System Track set to show (which it does by default), the subdivisions of the bar will show, allowing you to position the cursor over the last quaver and simply click.

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You can Paste within Note Entry, so once you’ve got the grid up, get the caret to the right place, and Paste.

Or, you can just Alt-click, which will paste a copy of the selection where you click, if you have an eye for the right spot.

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And alt-click works with pretty much everything - time and key signatures, dynamics, slurs, notes, text, you name it.

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