Unwelcome CC7 data are unwelcome

I have a cello ensemble doing this:

… and unfortunately sounding like this:

In the play tab, I see this:

Note the information on controller 7. I have no idea where that came from, and I am unable to get rid of it. Notating dynamics in the score, drawing data on that graph, even deleting the notes – nothing has any effect.

Anyone got any ideas about removing it, that don’t involve destroying the staff?

as there is no asterisk against CC7, that means that in theory there is no data on that channel so it is pretty weird! Is any controller allocated to CC7 by any chance in the EM? Is there any difference if you don’t use separate voices?

Yeah, it’s bizarre, @dko22… no reference to controller 7 anywhere in my expression maps. I don’t know what you mean by not using separate voices; there’s only one voice on the staff (“Up-stem voice 1”).

if you are not splitting the celli anywhere, I can’t see any reason for enabling independent playback of voices as you have done? I don’t suppose it makes any difference but did you try without it?

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Something in the notation is giving rise to those controller messages, presumably a dynamic. If you can cut the project down to just that affected little chunk and attach it here (without changing the playback template so that we don’t lose the expression map settings) I’d be happy to take a look.

Here ya go, @dspreadbury. Let me know if this is missing anything that you need.

Thanks. At first glance I can’t figure this out, but I’ll see if Paul will take pity on me and give us the benefit of his expertise.

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had a quick look here. On “upstem voice 1” there is no CC7 data, unlike in your original screenshot. However, if you do not split the voices, I do see the CC7 line which suggests to me that Dorico thinks there is another voice present which does have CC7 data, Can it be that this extract originally belonged to a two voice cello line? Anyway, if I delete the CC7 data in the non-split mode then it simply goes which is why I asked the question in the first place earlier.

Where it came from I still have no idea. There is certainly nothing in the EM referring to CC7, just as you said!

This was a head-scratcher for me too for a while, as I deleted all notes and dynamics, but the CC7 data was still there. I noticed that Independent Voices were turned on for the track, so I turned it off an lo-and-behold, the CC data was now editable. So you can access and delete it by turning off Independent Voice Playback.

As to how it happens, I think it may get in this state if you add automation data to an instrument, then turn on Independent Voices. At this point we create a new automation stream for each voice (previously we just had one automation stream for the whole Instrument), but the old one for the instrument hangs around and gets played and displayed, but there’s no way to edit it. We’ll have to think about how best to handle what happens to automation data when you switch independent voices on.

so I wasn’t imagining things – the split/independent voices was the issue as I thought all along. I have never myself come across “trapped” CC data after later enabling independent playback but Dorico’s behaviour seems perfectly consistent here – the data doesn’t show in voice 1 because it isn’t in voice 1 and you can only delete it where it shows.

I guess only Milo can possibly shed any light on where the CC7 comes from but perhaps it doesn’t matter any more…

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Thanks, @dko22 and @PaulWalmsley!

I don’t know how the data got there, but removing it has fixed my playback. I’m actually paranoid, now, and shall proceed to review all of my other staves for ghost / zombie MIDI continuous controller data. :grimacing:

Regarding enabling independent voice playback, I have other flows in the same score that require that. I haven’t figured out how to enable it for some flows, while disabling it for others; even if I click the button to “Set for This Flow,” the change applies globally, to every flow.

Why is the user given the option to enable or disable independent voice playback, anyway? What’s the use or advantage in turning this off for a staff that has multiple voices written for it? Has this been discussed elsewhere?

the main reason for independent playback of voices is if you want to use different articulations or even instruments for the different voices. Dorico then automatically creates extra channels to enable this. If you don’t need this, then don’t bother enabling otherwise something might just go wrong…

I understand the intention behind it, I just don’t get why it was implemented the way it was. If one clicks the switch to the off state, then it eliminates the current VST and channel assignments for all additional voices on the staff. (Fortunately, the Undo command works to reverse this action, which even affects all flows, apparently.) Why would anyone ever want Dorico to do that?

I also find it annoyingly proactive; it generates a new entry in the VST Instruments drop-down. But what if I already have a VST to which I want to assign the additional voice(s)? Now I’ve got to delete the extraneous VST. Why not simply remove the independent playback switch altogether, and make it the user’s responsibility to ensure that he has the channel count and VST(s) that he requires? Is there really some mystery as to how VST and channel assignments work, by this point?