Using Guitar Rig 5 in realtime...

Howdy,

I’ve been playing around with Guitar Rig 5 and in Standalone, it works superbly. I have also tried using it in C Pro 8 and when inserting as a VST Insert it works fine (for re amping).

Now, I can’t seem to figure out how to use Guitar Rig 5 in realtime (pre fader). I am using a Motu HD192 and obviously have Direct Monitoring switched on so I can utilize the DSP Near Zero Latency monitoring of the Mitu Cuemix. I’m guessing this could be a reason why I can’t hear Guitar being effected by Guitar Rig in realtime? Do I have to switch direct monitoring off and switch the Monitor button on , on a Cubase Audio Channel? Just wondering how to get this very handy plugin to work and the best way to use it.

Thanks for any advice.

Jono

Yes, if you want to hear the guitar signal as processed by GR while playing/recording. you could record with the DSP with Near Zero Latency and then adjust the sound in the mix with GR.

Curious because I thought I wouldn’t be able to record with near zero latency of the Motu once I turn off Direct Monitoring and therefore have to monitor via Cubase. I’ll give it a go when in the Music Lab!

I record with monitoring via Cubase with GR as an insert with the lowest latency setting (1ms) on my Scarlett 2i2. Depending on the project I may have to freeze some VST instrument tracks and turn on SAPS. I think the Cubase Devices ontrol panel says about 8-10 ms latency total but I, personally, can’t tell.

SAPS?

SAPS=Steinberg Audio Power Scheme.

Oh, ok.
I remember reading a few threads on 7.5 that that audio power scheme caused more harm than good.
Has that changed for 8 Pro?

Hallo Jono not Bono,

I am not sure as i am not familiar with this interface but i assume the DSP Mixer of you Motu can only process external inputs with its direct monitoring at near zero latency. VST Effects do depend on your Asio Host Latency Settings.

I don’t leave it on. Only when recording audio. I have not seen any discussions about problems with it on. Where did you see that? Basically, it makes the CPU run full speed. I can record on the lowest latency with no crackles pops static or interference.
Check this out…
https://soundcloud.com/jrl-music/saps-demo

Thanks for the link jaslan.

It was mid-last year sometime.
I just remember reading a few various threads on 7.5 [or maybe even 7.0] that some suggested turning that power scheme off.

But it was probably on a case by case basis.

IIRC, some didn’t think it all that much of a good idea.

But what do they know?

I mean, if it works for some, it most likely works for some others, right?

For that matter, what do I know? :laughing:

When you say it makes the CPU run at full speed, I’m assuming that means across multi-core CPUs then?

I say BASICALLy because I honestly don’t know the technical details. But, it basically prevents the CPU from slowing down (sped stepping) during low usage times to save power. Of course this causes the fans to stay on due to extra heat generated. That is why I don’t leave it on. I record guitar then turn it off.

I just think it is very helpful during recording at the lowest latency setting to ensure one doesn’t get any dropouts or static, etc.

Direct Monitoring is near zero latency because it bypasses your audio software. Sound goes straight from the interface inputs to the interface outputs. Some interfaces actually have their own built-in DSP effects for people who need to hear processing while they’re playing/singing.

In order to hear Guitar Rig while you’re recording, you need to disable direct monitoring, enable track monitoring, and lower your interface’s sample buffer size as low as you can go without any pops or drops in your audio. (Note: If you were an Ableton Live user, you’d be up a creek, but Cubase handles this situation pretty well.)

There indeed have been people who reported issues with the Steinberg power scheme, but it could vary by computer or OS. I don’t know how well it translates across operating systems (XP, Vista, Win 7, Win 8 all have slightly different power management). In Windows Power Options, the built-in High Performance scheme is the most reliable one to use. I’ve never used the Steinberg scheme; do not know how/if it’s any different from Windows High Performance.

I also use the High Performance one. But I will consider using the SAPS one if needed.

While we’re at it, in the Performance Options>Advanced tab under Processor Scheduling, it always seems to be suggested to set it to ‘Background Services’.

I’ve recently seen it suggested to set it to ‘Programs’ - but only once.

This makes more sense to me.

Anyone agree or disagree?

Care to educate me either way on this?

Hi I know this has nothing to do with GR but I thought this might be helpful for you, if you didn’t know already this is a link for setting up your pc for audio. It’s very in-depth http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct06/articles/pcmusician_1006.htm

Thank you for everyone’s advice. As usual, Steinberg’s forum is just a wonderful place to learn! :slight_smile:

Jono

Also keep in mind that sound travels about 1 foot per mS. 4ms latency is effectively the same as standing 4 ft from a real hardware guitar amp. More than adequate I think. No need to stress your system by gong down to 1ms…

So, for example, if I wanted to track live drums and at the same time record a Guitarist using Guitar Rig (I normally Mic up Amps rather than use something Guitar RIg but its actually a very handy writing tool) I would have to have Direct Monitoring off and everyone would have to monitor via Cubase’s Control Room? I’m obviously happy to do this but was under the impression Motu’s DSP Cuemix was far better to use (for external Audio)? Also, am I limited to only 4 headphone Cuemixs with Control Room? The Motu allows as many as I have physical outputs.

Thank you David.

I now also realize that I’ve gone completely off topic. My apologies to the original poster and the forum community altogether. Something I try to never to do, but missed it this time 'round. :unamused:

I’ll be damned. Never thought about that… :sunglasses:
Thx!

I also want to clarify…
When I said 1ms, I was talking about the buffer setting on the sound card. The total, round trip latency reported by Cubase is about 8ms, which is still negligible to my ears (I have read as low as 6ms may be detectable). If I raise the buffer setting to 2ms, the round trip is about 14ms, which is still perfectly playable, even if it is detectable.
My point really is that if you want to monitor with GR, especially if you start filling the rack with Grain Oscillators, reverse effects, or pitch change effects, you may need to use that lowest buffer setting on the sound card to get an acceptable overall latency. IF the machine is not keeping up, SAPS (or another high performance power scheme) may very well make the difference. Another important point is that I would only use the Hugh performance power scheme when it is actually needed, such as when recording at low latency, because it will, of course, make the CPU run hotter and louder (with fans on) during that time.