Is there a way to adjust the hight of the dotted line (hyphens) in hyphenated dynamic markings like dim - - - i - - - nu - - - en - - - do or cre - - - scen - - - do ?
By default, Dorico erroneously places the line at the baseline of the text. This is acceptable when the expression isn’t hyphenated, but otherwise the line should look like a string of hyphens and be vertically placed accordingly.
Along with the error noted in the OP, Dorico provides a continuation line after a hyphenated dynamic marking: dim - in - u - en - do _ _ _ _ _
The point behind hyphenated dynamics is to avoid using a continuation line by spreading out the dynamic marking so that the final syllable is placed where a continuation line would end were a non-hyphenated dynamic and continuation line used instead. dim - - - in - - - u - - - en - - - do dim. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Since this is the normal behavior of hyphenated dynamics, I think that no continuation line should be the default with an option of a continuation line for rare cases.
Thanks for pointing this out, John! That is quite strange behaviour, and I can’t really think of any situation where you’d want a continuation line following a hyphenated dynamic marking, not even in rare cases.
I don’t think it’s right to call this an “error”, Knut and John, since it’s clearly intentional that the dashed are bottom-aligned with the text. And it’s also intentional that the dashes continue after the final syllable of the text. Although I can’t give you chapter and verse right this minute about the various editions we saw this, we definitely didn’t dream it up ourselves.
I will certainly log your request to show hyphens like in lyrics in gradual dynamics, and hopefully we’ll be able to address this in future.
This would be great! It would match the beautiful edition of Carmen (vocal score) that Schott issued some years ago and with which I was working these days (and created a sort of duplicate topic, for which I apologize). I honestly do not recall seeing this type of hyphenated dynamic in my musical bookshelf…
I don’t think the fact that something works as intended would by definition exclude the possibility of any error being made, since that would imply a certain infallibility on part of the team, which I don’t think you intend to claim.
Anyway, as I said in another thread about this same issue, hyphens within expressions are indeed quite commonly drawn at the baseline in older scores, and as such, I do agree that it’s a bit unreasonable to call this an error. It would, however, most certainly be considered an error in the context of contemporary text typography, which is indeed the norm that most modern scores follow (although, I’m sure there are exceptions).
That said, even in modern scores, the precise vertical placement of hyphens and continuation lines does vary somewhat, to accommodate different spacing considerations. For the same reason, being able to adjust the hight and angle of specific parts of the continuation line more elaborately, to avoid collisions with other objects, would also be a very welcome feature.
I’m more adamant that there shouldn’t be an extension line beyond the last syllable of hyphenated expressions, though. At least not by default. Of course in expressions like cre - scen - do - al - f you could argue that there is an extension before an isolated forte marking, but it seems more reasonable to regard this as one composite expression rather than two or even three. In any case, this is an exception, and in the vast majority of cases you wouldn’t want the dashes to go beyond the last syllable of the modifier.
Errors or not, I’m happy that you’ll consider adding some increased flexibility in this regard to a future version of Dorico.
there shouldn’t be an extension line beyond the last syllable of hyphenated expressions, though. At least not by default. Of course in expressions like > cre - scen - do - al - > f > you could argue that there is an extension before an isolated forte marking, but it seems more reasonable to regard this as one composite expression rather than two or even three. In any case, this is an exception, and in the vast majority of cases you wouldn’t want the dashes to go beyond the last syllable of the modifier.
There has been no change in this field since that original thread was created, and I must say that the hyphenated dynamics are unusable with those hyphens (or dashed lines) after the - do (di- mi- nu- en- do -----)
 sorry for that double-posting in this thread, I had completely forgotten I already complained about this subject… It does annoy me a lot these days
No bump intended though
Is this something we can expect to see in the next updates? Thanks for your attention and for all your excellent work!
Thanks Daniel. I did not expect to see this in the next update, but maybe sometime before Dorico 3 or in that big upgrade… I’ll wait. By the way, congrats on the new features John has showed yesterday, I guess we’ll change some workflows thanks to those new features, and working in Dorico will still be more fluent, nice and fast ! Keep up the good work (and the good mood!)
I sincerely second the request although I just found an example with lines at the bottom in Mahlers fifth by UE. There should be an option to have the dashes in the middle. Very interesting: in my older score of Carmen (Dover, p. 205, without further reference and as system text) I found sem – - - pre _ _ _ a - - ni - - man - - do _ _ e _ _ cre - - scen - do (all of these dashes being the german “Viertelgeviertstrich” (quarter of an em dash)). So they did differentiate between spaces between words and between syllables - which seems very logical to me…
(Mark, by the way, Carmen by Bärenreiter was written with SCORE).