Hi,
I’m using the current version of Cubasis 3, on a 2021 iPad Pro 12.9”. I have a song that is up to 100% DSP usage (CPU is very low though), so I started freezing a few tracks. But it seems that the volume level of the ‘frozen’ track is noticeably lower than the original. For example I have a line in guitar track which I duplicated, then froze the original track. The dupe track was set to the same volume as the original, I didn’t touch it at all, -14.94. I then did an ‘A/B’ comparison between the two and in order to match the volume of the dupe track, I had to take the Freeze track up to -10 or so, basically about 5 difference. I checked this with a vocal track and an EP track and it was about the same difference. The tracks are using AU plugins, no IAA. MixBox being one of the main ones.
Is this expected? Am I doing something wrong if I am hearing this difference in volume? It seems odd that the volume would get attenuated like that and it also throws the mix out of whack when a few tracks are in freeze state and others are not.
I’ve got the same iPad and just tried this myself but couldn’t reproduce it. Which AUv3 plugins did you use for those frozen tracks?
Hi @songwriter_in_c,
Thanks for your message.
If possible, please let me have a short clip, which visualizes the problem.
Thanks
Lars
Mostly using MixBox on many of the tracks. However, even with tracks with no plugins I am seeing the issue. I feel like I must be doing something wrong but I can reproduce it even with one the demo songs that come with Cubasis. Will try and post a screen shot as you can see the attenuated volume right on the track.
Hi Lars,
I will definitely try and get a video as soon as I can, in the meantime, here is a screenshot of a freeze track versus duped track. Even between the black & white original track and the Freeze track, you can see the difference in the track volume. This is one of the songs included with Cubasis. I have not added any plugins at all. All I did was go to the bass track and tap the freeze icon.
One thing to note, if I then Normalize the Freeze track, it brings it closer to what I originally had in some cases, but in others it brings up quieter/subtler areas too much. Normalization isn’t really the best option to fix it.
I still suspect I am doing something to cause this. If there is some ‘stupid noob’ thing you think I might have missed that would cause this, let me know.
If you check under “Setup” (upper right corner) and check “Mixdown / Freeze” (lower right corner) the fifth option (right column of option), is the “Track Freeze Uses Mixdown Settings” off or on?
Hi @songwriter_in_c,
Thanks for your message.
I gave the topic a short check with Cubasis 3.3.1 on the iPad Pro 12.9" 1st Gen, where things work as expected.
Please see it yourself in the clip example below.
Could the issue be related to track fader settings in the mixer, or effects used in your project?
Hope that helps!
Best,
Lars
Hi Lars,
I didn’t touch the faders after freeze, so they are set both to the same level. To test if the plugins could be an issue I duplicated one of the projects that has the issue and removed all the plugins form every track, including any send and master plugins. I still had the issue.
Is it possible that the new M1 iPads are the issue?
Thanks
Dave
Hi Lars,
I should mention that I cannot reproduce this in all projects. If I do something similar to what you did with just and audio track in the project. It’s fine. But most projects where there are more than a couple of tracks, I then have it happening.
Thanks
Dave
What Lars is demonstrating is when you freeze a track and eventually play it together with the originating (unmuted!) track, you double the output (1+1=2) and thus it sounds louder. Normally one does not unmute the frozen track because of that, it should remain muted (grey). This has nothing to do with faders and you don’t see Lars moving faders either. The doubling of sound increases the output with 3 dB. That why you see the output meter starting to clip.
Seems to me like Lars wants to make sure you know how to apply track freeze in its intended purpose?
I’m certain the M1 iPad isn’t the issue here btw, I have one myself.
Yup I know that the sound would be louder with both tracks on. My approach is first to duplicate the track before I freeze it. That way I have a reference track (rather than unmuting the original track, which I actually didn’t think you could do). I don’t change any faders or anything, simply go back and forth between the freeze track and the dupe of the original track that was frozen, soloing them individually, never at the same time. There is a definite and significant difference. If I recreate what Lars demonstrated, I do not have an issue with just one track in a project. But even with projects of only a few tracks, I am hearing the issue.
If you remove the Insert Effects of such a track, does it also happen?
Yup I tested it with no plugins and still had it happening. But I’ve figured out what it is. I don’t totally understand why this impacts things but I’m new to iPad recording and Cubasis.
The issue happens when I have a volume automation on the Master channel. At the very end of the track, I take the volume down to -
in about 5 seconds. When Read is enabled any track I freeze gets a noticeable volume reduction. When Read is not on or there is no automation on the master channel. No issue.
This seems weird to me as I’d expect the freeze to be independent of anything on the master channel but here’s where maybe I’m not understanding how this works. But at least I know what triggers the problem and how to ensure it doesn’t happen.
Hi @SkullHQX,
Thanks for your message.
What Lars is demonstrating is when you freeze a track and eventually play it together with the originating (unmuted!) track, you double the output (1+1=2) and thus it sounds louder.
This was not my intention here. I’ve just want to demonstrate that both tracks played back at a similar level. No matter if it is the original track, or the frozen version of it.
Best,
Lars
Haha, okay. That makes sense now.