I’m not going to start suggesting which library is best of several good ones, but I can provide one consideration. For woodwinds and brass, samples of multiple instruments in unison are of limited value in Dorico. The reason is that there is no way to trigger a2, a3, a4, or a6 samples automatically without resorting to annoying workarounds like hidden playback techniques. If the library only has one solo flute, one solo clarinet, etc, then putting two of that same instrument in unison can result in phasing issues since it can be the exact same recording placed against itself. So then, if they play together, you should add a hidden a2 marking for one of them so that it triggers a 2 flutes unison patch, and prevent playback of the notes in the other flute part, then undo it once the passage is over.
Libraries that have a collection of soloists (two different solo flutes, two different solo oboes, four different solo horns, etc) tend to be a more natural fit in Dorico than libraries that have, for instance, a single solo horn patch and a horns a2 patch and a horns a4 patch. Using a2, a4 etc patches is always going to feel like a bit of a hack in Dorico with the hidden playback techniques that you have to resort to.
did you notice that the Berlin Orchestra is now less than half price until the end of the month which makes it fully competitive compared to the likes of VSL Prime? Worth considering?
Good advice for anyone entering the market for big products like the VSL, Berlin & Spitfire libraries: focus on sale periods, which are generally between Black Friday and new year, and then around June/July.
oh yes. I did notice it, while it’s still expensive for me who is a student, it’s definitely worth to take the leap now if you ever considered it!
I will most likely take the leap and get berlin orchestra before the sail ends!
I’m still not ruling out adding Berlin at that price for an alternative view of things, though already owning VSL SE, BBC Core and the Cinematic Studio suite, I might be better off trying to better master what I already have . I don’t know but imagine Berlin would be fairly straightforward to programme Expression Maps for. At any rate, I’ve had no problems with the Tallinn and Salu instruments I so far invested in which both give a completely different sort of approach to timbre from any of my other collections.
If you are a student, please note that you still get the student discount in addition to the current less-than-half-price discount, so it is 50% off, and then another 40% off the remainder.
Yes, I bought it this past weekend because of this, and because of the sale, and because Orchestral Tools balanced the samples, and because Steinberg made official expression maps for Berlin Orchestra for Dorico (available here: Playback Templates for Dorico – Dorico).
I also have EastWest Hollywood Orchestra Opus and spent days on templates for that, only to find that they didn’t always properly even balance the articulations of the same instrument, so staccato might suddenly be louder than long bows and things of that sort, let alone trying to get the rest of the orchestra to balance.
I’ve been using Berlin Orchestra since this past weekend in Dorico and am pretty impressed so far.
are you 100% sure? I do have a student account with OT, and I tried to put the Berlin Orchestra in the cart just to see the price, and the discount got 50% and not 90% ?
Here my thoughts about the question posed in the original thread. I have VSL and BBCSO and also some Berlin instruments. I cannot judge for Noteperformer
It depends a lot if you first want to invest in a full reasonably priced orchestra with limited microphone options and some limits on articulations and maybe later expand with expensive. but extensive section libraries.
If this is the case you have to invest in VSL Prime or Berlin Orchestra. Spitfire seems to have stopped developing BBCSO. Very regrettable.as woodwinds and brass only have single instruments which is in my opinion the weakness of this library. They now started with high priced very extensive section libraries registered in Abbey Road but there only is a low percussion section till now.
If we look at the size of the Prime, Berlin and BBCSO Core libraries there is a lot of difference. Prime 65 GB, Berlin 91 GB and BBCSO Core only 28 GB.
BBCSO Core has only 1 or 2 mixes (pro with 630 GB has many options) and both Core and Pro have maximum three modulation layers but most instruments have only 2 as per my experience. It has the most articulations of the three. However as said Core and Pro have only one horn, flute etc. and no solo strings. Pro has Leader for each string section.
Prime has several presets with different microphones so this might lead to more GB. Articulations are OK with some nice options but miss CS and dampened brass as most VSL Synchron libraries by the way. Woodwinds and Brass have 2 of each of the main instruments but there are no leaders in the string sections. They suggest to use a close preset to simulate them.
Berlin also has only one microphone mix. So if all GB go to dynamic layers this could be a big plus. They also have 3 trumpets and 4 horns and solo string instruments. So very complete. If I would not have the others I would be tempted!
One last point is the size of the string section. BBCSO is great and full size. I often use it in combination with woodwinds and brass of VSL. VSL a bit small. I tried to use Pro strings and Elite strings together to get a full orchestra sound but have not found the right balance yet. I could not find the size of the Berlin string sections.
this is inevitable as it was recorded at Maida Vale Studios which either closed or very soon will (I’m unclear but it’s certainly already for sale). The BBC SO was always designed as a one-off project.
As for size, Berlin is 40Gb compressed which is the actual space required on the hard drive. It does have considerably more dynamic layers than other “budget” all in ones which is a partial compensation for the small number of articulations. I think you’re right in saying that the BBC has the biggest string section – at any rate it sounds like the fullest and it’s said by many that the BBC sounds most like a real orchestra, despite the various issues it has.
You have to email them to ask them. Their system is malfunctioning for this because normally the student discount doesn’t apply when another discount is in place, but it does in this one particular case for this one particular sale, and their system is not handling it properly. If you email them they will give you a code to use in the store to get the additional discount.
BTW, it is not a 90% discount. It is 40% off the 50% discounted price. Adding the percentages together does not give you the correct figure. The price with both discounts should be about 70% off, around 230 euro or so.
About the official expression maps for Berlin Orchestra by Steinberg you mentioned, is it made specifically for this one? Berlin Orchestra (orchestraltools.com)
If so, seems like it’s a good choice for Dorico! I’ll consider buy it especially because of the deal now.
It’s very good I would say, but I am making my own tweaks to the official expression maps.
It’s not really a replacement for NotePerformer of course, as NotePerformer does extra shaping and is more flexible when it comes to faster passages and things like that. Some passages may require manual intervention with Berlin in the form of MIDI editing to change velocity / CC values to sound quite right. But, with NotePerformer, you don’t get any ability to customize things - you basically have to take the shaping it gives you and can’t add your own. And NotePerformer is also not as realistic in exposed passages because it mostly uses synthesis instead of sampling.
Please, where can I find these expresions maps for orchestral tools? I don’t see it. Could you give the link? Thank you.
p.s. I work with VSL and BBC pro, but I am curious to know more about Orchestral tools and its efficiency in Dorico.
So I took the plunge and bought it, I am now in the step with trying to make it work with dorico but I’m struggling.
So I have by now installed and downloaded all instruments, when I open sineplayer as stand alone I can play any of the instruments and get sound as feedback.
But when I open up an existing project in dorico, and then I go to playback templates and choose “OT Berklee” which I got from the link above in this forum, and choose it for my current project, then I can see that my instruments automatically have changed to the right OT-library, but I no longer get any sound from the instruments at all?
So in short, when using the sineplayer as a stand alone, I can get sound from it, but when using it in dorico with the playback template, I can’t seem to get any sound, what do you think the problem could be?
EDIT: I would also like to add that when I open up the sine player in dorico for an assigned instrument, and try playing with my midi keyboard, then I can see in the sine player that there is indeed a signal, and that there should be sound playing since the sine mixer is making movements with every key stroke, but still - i can’t hear anything.
Additional Edit:
So I just realized, that when I set an instrument to Berlin Orchestra without changing the Playback template (I let it be as noteperformer), then I do get sound from the OT-instrument. Additionally, when I try to use OT in Ableton live for a track, I also get sound.
So it seems like it’s the playback template that is the issue and taking away the sound?
. I don’t know but imagine Berlin would be fairly straightforward to programme Expression Maps for. At any rate, I’ve had no problems with the Tallinn and Salu instruments I so far invested in which both give a completely different sort of approach to timbre from any of my other collections.