The VSL Synchron Player has a large number of articulations that can be played directly live from the player, also, having installed VSL and its sound sets, the most common of the mentioned articulations can be triggered from the score, using the traditional writing symbols, (legato, staccato, tremolo, ppp, ff,) and so on.
I would however like to be able to trigger ALL of the available articulations for each VSL instrument from the score. Including for example for the cello: Articulation = Sul Ponticello+Type Marcato+Atack Sustain.
I am aware that DÓRICO has a large number of articulations available to write on the score from the Playing Techniques Panel, including for example: Col Legno Tratto for Strings, some of these do trigger articulations in VSL however most are different and don’t coincide.
Please someone guide me on the path to achieve this the simplest way possible.
Thank you.
That’s a big question. You can use the VSL expression maps as a starting point and add techniques to them of course, but first you want to figure out what is actually missing. You can do that by going through the map.
I would suggest to use Noteperformer with their VSL playback engine : it is the most simple way to use VSL and benefits from all the articulations available I suppose. Hope this help.
Thanks for the good advice, I’m watching over and over this video till I know it well, I suspect it’s all in there. https://www.youtube.com/live/fi6WDwpFSR8?si=4b1BErC3Kgi8ecXe
I also watched this one https://youtu.be/gDtnnV4oXHM?si=tWs9p86j-Bdl_cJo
but unfortunately, it’s for an old DORICO version and much has been rearranged in DORICO, wish Anthony Huges 's videos would be updated because he explains very well, quickly and logically.
Very good Idea, thanks, I actually bought some of those for my NP but didn’t like them. I guess I felt NP’s magic is interpreting automatically and with VSL I don’t want it to do that. Still if I can manage to get the NP VSL engine to just read all VSL articulations, nothing could be better. Will try it out. Thanks again.
Indeed. Now I switched my full orchestra to Swam from Audio Modeling to have a full control of the articulations and expression. No need for an articulation map, just for pizz/arco. From strings for instance you control the bow speed, bow pressure, vibrato depth and frequency, the position of the bow. I am still on my leaning curve but now I am much more precise. Last works using Swam on my YT channel @franckdansaert
I use DORICO and Sibelius with several virtual instruments including those of my VSL, and with all of them use all the many usual Dynamics and Playing Techniques on my scores. As I’m sure you all know, string Instruments are the most difficult to make sound realistically with virtual instruments, because of the tremendous number of sound variations they can and do produce. I have the cheapest of VSL libraries, yet it has (combining Articulations with their types and attacks), 47 different sounds for string Instruments; I have used these playing live with the keyboard but have not been able to use them in my scores. Since the installed and automatically functioning VSL expression maps already reproduce all standard Dynamics and Playing Techniques in my scores, it is only the mentioned 43 different sound for string instruments that I am concerned with. I gather, and please correct me if I am wrong, that what I must do is duplicate the existing VSL string Expression Maps and if possible, add the necessary Dynamics and Playing Techniques, to make the 43 extra Dynamics and Playing Techniques function in score writing. The reason I am so interested in this is that I suspect that using all these variations on String instruments, will if used carefully and properly, improve the sound of playback in my scores tremendously, arguably more, than buying more expensive samples.
To my ears, string instruments, even from very expensive libraries, have a tendency to sound like cheap toy accordions when not used properly.
Yes, that’s correct, but in my experience you already have the lion’s share of techniques available in the maps. The things that are not mapped are the things that don’t necessarily make sense in notation programs like the measured tremolos which Dorico has no way of triggering without notating them incorrectly. But mostly everything else that makes sense to have in Dorico is there already.
Secondary techniques that VSL recorded but that aren’t mapped typically include things like prerecorded swells, prerecorded runs, and measured tremolos. These do add a lot of realism but you often have to notate them funny to get them to play back, where you can’t make the score like you would give to performers and instead have to notate it incorrectly on purpose. VSL doesn’t map these because you would have to write incorrect notation to trigger them.
It’s unlikely to make your score sound that much better to use some of these missing techniques. Chances are that most of the ones you think are missing are not missing. I’m finding 95% of them are already mapped when I go through the map and compare with the Synchron Player SE 1 Plus versions.
Well, you can use the recently-added trigger feature to make them play, while not showing them in the score. And the written notes can be excluded from playback.
I apologise for not answering sooner, have been busy with other things. Everything you are saying, I am finding out to be true. I am working on an experimental score at the moment, with string instruments, trying to use all articulations available in DORICO for strings, and then playing them back while observing in the corresponding Synchron Player which articulations are automatically triggered. Harmonics, measured tremolos, prerecorded swells, are not triggered. Since you clearly know a lot about this. It would be of great help if you could list the articulations and combinations of them for strings, in the Synchron player, that are not possible to trigger from DORICO. In fact, I was about to post asking how to notate on the score these secondary techniques and techinque combinations. I was thinking along the lines of giving them special characters, or a specific color to distinguish them and so be able to give DORICO the order to hide them or make them visible with a specific command. I did notice something very simple but also very cumbersome, if one simply plays them on the keyboard so that they are notated on one stave, at the same time, (below or and above), as the note they must affect, it works. This is of course only curious and extremely ugly to look at.
Then there is the learning to write them and activate them, which I continue to try to do with the help of the mentioned videos. I am yet to try to trigger two or three articulations at the same time from the score, as the Synchron Player does. I keep thinking that an automatic integration with CUBASE would help this kind of thing tremendously. One could then produce scores properly in DORICO and their recordings on CUBASE. Thanks for your help and encouragement.
Very useful, must look into that in the help menu, shall I search under “trigger feature”? I’ve just looked at the video
" Groove Agent SE and MIDI triggers | Dorico 5 "
I suspect this is what you are referring to? Fascinating. Thanks.
I bought the NP playback engine for my VSL as soon as it came out but must confess, I was rather disappointed and confused and never used it again. Perhaps I just have to learn to use it properly. There is however a video that confirms my feelings about this. https://youtu.be/VezeO-cu-lY?si=GnFwxJCI188B2MKz
Thanks for your help.
I am beginning to look into Swam from Audio Modeling, extremely interesting new approach to instrument sampling, impressive sound. Can one incorporate this into DORICO?
Will continue to look into it, thanks.
Sorry to read that. The Spitifire SSO NP engine for me is pretty good and I supposed it was the case for the NP VSL Engine. For me it delivered results very close to my live concerts I gave this year with a full symphony orchestra. But it really depends the level of control you want to have on your strings. FYI, I switched to SWAM from Audio Modeling which physically model each instrument of the orchestra and I am still on my learning curve. Still not as good compared to my previous mockup but I am making progress and I already feel that I can be very more precise.
I’m not sure where you’re getting that harmonics don’t play back. They do.
This doesn’t tell you much and is a very inefficient use of your time because you may not be doing the correct thing to trigger the technique automatically. So there are probably some things that do get triggered but you will never see them get triggered unless you notate things a specific way. That’s why you have to go through the expression maps to figure this out in detail, as I suggested before.
No, this would take me too long, because I’d have to use a manual process and spend a few hours at least itemizing everything. It is something that you are capable of doing just as easily, by looking through all the various expression map entries, and looking for any key combinations that are not mapped.
The Synchron Player can’t trigger two or three different articulations at the same time, so I’m not sure what you’re talking about.
BTW, you don’t have to put Dorico and Cubase in all caps, unless you want to do so for emphasis reasons. They aren’t acronyms.
Paolo_T
“Well, you can use the recently-added trigger feature to make them play, while not showing them in the score. And the written notes can be excluded from playback.”
And as mducharme wrote, “in that case you don’t have to modify the expression maps at all.”
I decided to take this route, and I’m quite happy with-it. It took me a little time to get used to it, but I’ve managed to use all combinations available on a score, on string instruments only so far.
As md pointed out most techniques are available in the maps, the few that are not, I have managed to write with MIDI triggers.
You have managed to guide me thru this very nicely. As far as I’m concerned, my questions have been answered.
Thank you very much indeed. Could not have managed without your help.
PS “Trigger two or three articulations at the same time” My mistake. What I meant was: As is on the Synchron Player An Articulation (C1) and a Type (C7) and an Atack (Dim.Ctrl/A)
For example: Tremolo+ Trills and Trem. Marcato and Staccato
Written with MIDI triggers E1, C#7, and the usual dot as traditionally written for Staccato.
