UPDATED TO LATEST EXPRESSION MAPS
I wrote the following to VSL, they really tried to help but I’m afraid I don’t get it.
"I still can’t make unpitched percussion instruments work.
For example: In Set up I add a single player, a particular symbal. It then appears on a single line staff in WRITE MODE .
I THEN go to PLAY MODE, I see nothing is set up. Routing, Ex map, and Perc. map. are all empty. No sound.
In routing I choose the only thing that appears plausible. SYzd SE Suspended Cimbal, in Ex map. I choose Default and in Perc. map I choose SYzd SE Suspended Cimbal
Then I open SYNCHRON PLAYER, It’s Symbals and Gongs, in the keyboard the C6 has the sound I want.
I go back to WRITE mode.
I input C6 on the 1 line score.
When I play it back it’s C5 sounds like a gong. Not what I want. "
I include shots of what should be easily available for me, I am clearly doing something wrong.
unless someone knows off the top of their head (I think this has possibly come up before), it would be easier to see a sample project which exhibits the problem. C5 is where the clash cymbal is in the VSL SE and my percussion map is also set to that so it works as expected. The Gong is mapped to G6. Are you sure you’re playing the correct key? It’s not impossible there is an error in the VSL maps (I don’t use them) but that should all be possible to see in the project.
This same thing works for me. I create a suspended cymbal with that map set and Cymbals+Gongs loaded in Synchron Player, play the notes in Dorico, and I hear a suspended cymbal.
Are you sure it is not actually the suspended cymbal you are hearing? Look at what key is getting depressed in the Synchron player when you hit play in Dorico. If you add a series of suspended cymbal hits in your score, then play it back with the window open, you should see the key getting depressed in the Synchron player when Dorico plays the note. The suspended cymbal is played with a soft mallet, so it does not sound dissimilar to a Tam-tam at certain velocities.
In the screenshot, the applied percussion map is General Midi, not the appropriate VSL map. If you click on the filter (just right of the Search box), you’ll see which maps are assigned in the project.
He did include a screenshot of the General MIDI percussion map for some unknown reason, and I was puzzled by that too, but that doesn’t mean he is configured to use that. He did say what percussion map he chose from the drop down.
It’s possible that the VSL map is for the Synchron Percussion (35), not Percussion (31). In the screenshot, 35 is not available. I’m not sure why that would be.
This is what I have on mine, so I am wondering how you got Synchron Percussion in there when there is theoretically no Synchron Percussion included with Synchron-ized SE:
Either way, I don’t think that’s related, because mine looks the same as the OP’s, and I’m using the same “SYzd SE Suspended Cymbal” map as they are, with the 31 Percussion - 03 Cymbals+Gongs, and it works and triggers the correct notes.
Perhaps you own some kind of PLUS module for SE or some other add-on module that adds some Synchron instruments to it? EDIT: Looks like Volume 2 of Synchron-ized SE comes with a couple Synchron Percussion instruments.
Yes, I have the full Special Edition collection, and also the Epic bundle that comes with Vienna Ensemble Pro. I couldn’t tell you which is the source of the Synchron group.
In desperation and frustration, I’ve come up with a peculiar experiment:
In SETUP I added three random instruments.
In PLAY, Edit Instrument, the corresponding SYNCHRON PLAYER appears, in it under PRESETS I changed to the desired SYNCHRON PLAYER thus:
Glockenspiel changed to Orchestral Percussion
Marimba changed to Drums
Harp changed to Cymbals and Gongs.
I now, in this score, have access to all percussion I have in my VSL.
Choosing from a large number of percussion instruments and sounds; I can now write and use the sound I want in Playback.
Of Course it is not written in a way that a real player is used to reading.
Perhaps with your help I can make the necessary changes to make this readable.
By first changing the name of the staff. Perhaps also if possible changing each instrument to one line staves or the appropriate stave.
PS Not so good, no control over articulations.
This isn’t the way the program is meant to be used, so you’re unlikely to get help with that.
You also haven’t answered the questions that were asked of you earlier in this thread, which makes it obvious you don’t actually want help, you just want to complain.
If I add a Suspended Cymbal and apply the VSL SYzd Special Edition Vol 1 Playback Template, then I get the setup below. If you get nothing then you either didn’t apply it, or the VSL for Dorico files didn’t install correctly.
Thank you, you are very helpful. The VSL SY Special Edition Vol 1 templet is applied to the project and works very well with all instruments except percussion instruments. Actually, if in setup I choose a particular percussion instrument like for example a crash cymbal, it is automatically assigned a 1-line stave, if I then add another different cymbal, it is also assigned a new 1-line stave, but it produces exactly the same sound as the first cymbal. Theese percussion instruments added in the way they are intended do react very well to fff and ppp and so on. The fact that they produce the same sound made me think that this might have to do with the fact that they are written onto a 1 line stave. Which is why I tried the forementioned experiment and was delighted to find out that this allows me to use all percussion instruments easily, unfortunately doing it this way, one cannot alter the volume of the instruments, which makes this system useless. If I could only manage to add all the percussion instruments that I can play directly from the forementioned PLAYERS, even if they all had to be in separate 1 line staves, that would be great. I will keep om trying, further help is welcome.
Inability to modify the dynamic of the instruments to make them louder or quieter is usually caused by loading the wrong expression map for the dynamic controllers used in this case. If the patch loaded is set to use CC2 for example, then you need an expression map that uses CC2 like “VSL Velocity + CC2 Dynamic”.
I’m a little puzzled by this though:
So you’re adding one crash cymbal, then another crash cymbal, and you are expecting the second crash cymbal to sound different from the first? I’m not sure how many different crash cymbals that VSL has sampled, but if they only sampled one crash cymbal, I would expect them to both sound the same if you added two to your score.
Keep in mind that Dorico distinguishes between a “Clash Cymbal” which is an orchestral crash cymbal (also known as Piatti) and a “Crash Cymbal” which is a cymbal suspended from a drum set.
I find your questions rather confusing, which is why I have not answered them. I will however try. I do not own some kind of PLUS module for SE or some other add-on module that adds some Synchron instruments to it. I am sure it was not the suspended cymbal I was hearing.
I have of course played all percussion instruments listed and available on my SYNCHRON PLAYERS on my midi keyboard and directly from the virtual player on the SYNCHRON PLAYERS, I do this to familiarize myself with them and choose the ones I wish to use. Unfortunately, I have as yet not managed to use them efficiently. Of course the two cymbals I added are not both crash cymbals but cymbals with different names that are allocated to different keys in the keyboard.
Up until a few hours ago, my first reply in the thread was intended for you, the others were in response to @Marcabru who was also responding to you. The question about the PLUS add on was not for you but for @Marcabru. Specifically if you can look at the questions I asked you in my first reply to this thread it would be helpful.
What was the other cymbal you added, and what was its name? I’m not sure exactly how you are naming them. Keep in mind that simply changing the name of the instrument won’t actually change what sound is loaded and it plays back. So if you create a new crash cymbal and rename the player to “Snare Drum” you won’t suddenly hear a snare drum.
That shouldn’t have anything to do with it. If you open up the “VSL SYzd SE - Suspended Cymbal.doricolib” percussion map file and peek inside, you’ll see that all entries are assigned to the instrument.orchestral.unpitched.suspended.cymbal instrumentEntityID. The percussion map doesn’t care how it’s displayed in the score or part.
Here’s what the VSL SYzd SE library has for cymbals:
There’s only one cymbal in there, with a bunch of different cresc and roll techniques. Of course it will sound the same as there isn’t any other cymbal in that VSL library to switch to. If you need different cymbals you’ll need to expand the library to something like VSL Cymbals & Gongs I, or mix and match with other sample libraries.
Thanks, that explains a lot. Mix and match with other sample libraries in one score sounds interesting, must look into that, I don’t know how.
I thank you all, it is late here, and I am tiered. I am going to sleep. Good night
I must apologize, I made the terrible mistake of assuming that each key in the virtual keyboard of the SYNCHRON PLAYER controlled a separate instrument, I see now that indeed there is only one Cymbal. Usually, the keys that control key changes are on the left and depicted in a different colour. I also did not notice that in the Synchron Player the name of the instrument with its variation appears on the bottom right in very small print. One more thing that contributed to my confusion was that (please correct me if I am mistaken) in DORICO, when one ads an instrument a list of instruments appears with many instruments and not just the ones available in the project one is creating or working on. It would be helpful in my opinion if the instruments available, that is the instruments in the library in use, would be listed separately or in a different colour.
I still don’t understand why Piatti does not appear in the list of instruments that appears when one is adding an instrument. Piatti which is listed in the Cymbals and Gongs Synchron Player is a cymbal different to the Suspended Cymbal. Is it not?
Again, I must ask for help: I have added a snare drum, for me it is very important to control precisely the velocity of instruments. In the snare drum I have added, pp, ff. notations are not working.
