VST Expression bug first anniversary !!!

Hello Steinberg team and users,
Since the release of Cubase 6 the bug still remain…and we are now at Cubase 6.5.1… :cry:
I hope the new release of cubase will fix it … :unamused:

What bug? Is it bug-screamin season? Or just those boring Easter hols? :mrgreen:

Weather’s awful isn’t it?

Maybe it’s the mosquito that wakes you up at 3:00 A.M.? :laughing:

Hello both,
You may not use the vst expressions don’t You ?
quotes related to the bug :

In the meantime I have done some tests with Cubase 6.5 and it seems the situation got better, but one bug remains. Cubase 6.5 still doesn’t play “Attribute” articulations that are attached to the first note of a track. However, they do work if there is a “Direction” articulation before. I already informed the Steinberg team about that.
Hi folks,

same here. I’m using the VSL Special Edition. First note staccato won’t work on trombones and trumpets. Haven’t tried other instruments yet. I’m on Cubase 6.5.0

Hm… just installed the most recent update Cubase 6.5.1. Now it’s even worse: Note expressions are completely ignored when the song is played. Strange enough: when I select a single note, it correctly switches to the articulation (staccato). But when playing the whole thing no expression is recognized. Unusable.

Need to write more ???
And yes to me it is a kind a mosquito, a mosquito that cost me 200 € for upgrading for 5.5.3 to 6 and 6 to 6.5 … All in VAIN !!!

I don’t, well, not yet anyway.

Correct me if I’m wrong:
The “bug” is Vienna Symphonic Library not responding correctly to note expressions.

Well since you keep making new threads unnecessarily… :unamused:

Shinta San , baka no koto shinaide kudasai, ok ? :smiley: = Don’t say umpleasant sentence before me . :wink:
You aren’t totally wrong :wink: , is it the new VST expression that not work since cubase 6,but I call someone at Steinberg he said the 6.5.2 will fix it.
Also , VSL will do an upgrade soon , to make it working well as it was with cubase 5. :sunglasses:

This bug is perhaps an issue with both VSL and Steinberg. VSL have updated VE Pro to help this issue, but I believe Steinberg need to change something in Cubase as well.

If you get this happening, then at the beginning of your track, (add an extra bar if necessary), add an articalution change on beat one, then a different articulation on beat 2 and then it will always select the correct one for where it should have started. This is not a solution, but a work around for the time being. I only use Direction articulation types, I don’t use Attribute - so it does still fail to work with Direction types.

This bug is strange because it doesn’t always do it.

Be careful you are not using random position in the MIDI modifilers, or if you do only use positive values - as the random does not move the VST expression data.

Thank You Andyjh,
It is actually what happened, it seems it is a shared mistake, and both Steinberg and VSL are working on, I just know that since few minutes ago.
I still use 5.5.3 for VSL and Cubase since I don’t want using tricks .
Again thank You fo Your kind message :slight_smile:

I experience this same bug using ‘directions’, and not just ‘attributes’. And it doesn’t seem to matter what the articulation is (staccato or legato or whatever).

Along similar lines VSL doesn’t always respond to the first continuous controller message either (Volume CC7, Expression CC11, etc.) So I’m also having to put a dummy first controller message for every controller I plan on using.

I’m still on Cubase 6.5–just shipped a big project (never update anything mid-project!) so I’ll be getting around to the updates now.

You will find that “articulation” is very new (yes, a year is “new” in computerland) and, like all other new features will probably take a few years to mature because input and integration has to be built into not just the Cubase feature but all the instruments that utilise it PLUS there will be feedback between the two on what works satisfactorily.
Then they have to decide whether it should sound right through the speakers or just look right on the Score page.

You didn’t believe the sales guff did you? :astonished:


Yes, you’re right. Why should we believe that the software developers have ACTUALLY made good on the promise to deliver a new feature that works they way they SAY it does. Foolish consumers! Gotcha again!

Just because something “conforms” to an industry standard doesn’t mean that it uses it well.

I could make a VST instrument that had note expression…on middle C alone…and would still be justified in saying that it had note expression.

VST Expression maps have nothing to do with any VST plug in or score editor, it just sends out MIDI data. You tell it what CC (or notes) you want Cubase to send when you select an articulation (the receiving instrument is not relevant - indeed Expression maps don’t even know what is receiving it), Cubase just sends out MIDI data, that shouldn’t be difficult, except Cubase does find it difficult.

You select an articulation, then press play, and Cubase doesn’t send anything - or at best it ignores the first articulation message. It shouldn’t take a year to fix this. Especially when the Expression map function is a big sales ploy for Steinberg. Steinberg promote their product based on this feature, but don’t worry too much if it actually works.

Selling things that don’t work is a reserved luxury for software developers, a hardware synth manufacturer would have to accept the faulty product back and offer refunds. With software we have to pay more money for an update to get it to work, and actually paying for V6 and V6.5 - it still doesn’t work properly.

The only problem with Steinberg, is that they have no real competition to keep them on their toes.

You’re assuming it’s Steinberg’s fault that VSL doesn’t work properly with note expression.

What if it’s the other way around?

And you would also be purposely misleading the public so they would buy your software…

True, and I don’t think the courts would like it…
However, welcome to the grey area that is marketing. You don’t say what your product can’t do, you say what it can do (even if it’s complicated to do so).

My main logic here:

What if Cubase isn’t at fault?
It’s up to the VST instrument developer to implement the standard.
If they don’t anticipate everything a user will want to do with note expression they’re not going to have it implemented.

Has it been confirmed by Steinberg that Cubase doesn’t send the first instance of a note expression?
Is it just with VSL?

Fair enough.

This should be easy enough to determine by using MIDI-Yoke and MIDI-OX. You can see exactly which data is getting sent out and in what order.


I have just tested Cubase, and I am sure I can say 100% it is exclusively a Cubase issue.

I loaded up a song where the articulation was not being sent.

Changed the output of the track to a MIDI port, and set up another track to record from from same MIDI port. (looped MIDI in to out on the interface)

Record the data being sent from Cubase.

Cubase has recorded only note data, there was no CC sent (VST Epression map set up to use CC’s)
Edit track with a dummy different articulation at the beginning of track - this is the bug work around.

Repeat recording, and now Cubase sends out the required CC data for articulations to work.

Nothing to do with any VST, VE Pro or anything - just Cubase not sending the first articulation out on a track.

100% Cubase bug