Vst Note Expression Is all I ever wanted, BUT

not for MIDI notes!!!

But for Audio Events!!!

Draw automation curves directly over an Audio event, in the exact same way As you can now with midi notes. Move the Automation Data with the Audio event!

Get rid of These cluttering automation lanes, Or, to Be backwards compatible, Mix the Audio Event Expression Automation Data with Automation on lanes.

I really thought something like this will Be Done before midi, if ever.

Why oh Why?

It Looks fantastic, really, but why Not for Audio Events???


First: Automation data can be bind to and moved with the audio event.

Second: How do you think this should be done? How should the engine know in which dynamic range the audio file lies or what kind of expression it uses? I don´t think this is an option.



OP: There is no need for such right yet, since the whole point of the new Note expression behavior is to “extract” only a part of the sound currently played back, and modify that.

There will be need for audio track-VST note expression when Melodyne DNA technology becomes standard…but as of now, you can’t “add reverb” to a certain overtone of the vocals.

Currently, whatever automation you do, it stays with the event when you’ve got “automation follows event” enabled. Cubase already does what you want it to do.

Yup. Another strange post looking for a problem before the product is even out already.
Only seems to happen here. Phantom problem men again. Must be something in the water.

I Know that Automation follows event. That was Not my Point. I rather meant Automation curves directly on Top of an Audio Event. Instead of somewhere on a lane that might Even Be hidden.

And what should happen to the second and third lane? All stacked? I don´t see any sense in this. Do you know you can show the waveform in every automation lane? Just go to automation preference and activate ‘show data’ (don´t know the exact option name, I´m on a german system).

Best regards


I see perfect sense in this.

For MIDI, we’ve been getting used to edit MIDI CC data in multiple lanes beneath the note in the key editor for years. We got the feature “move MIDI CC data with notes”.

An now, we got VST Note Expression, and finally are able to bind MIDI CC data to notes, and THAT is really a vast improvement over separate multiple lanes: We can edit note dependandt CC automation data in kontext of a note.

Nearly the same as to MIDI cc data applies to automation data. multiple separate lanes. We got the feature "move automation data with audio event. The logical conclusion has to be to be able to bind automation data to audio events: edit audio event dependant automation data in kontext of an audio event.

it could be implemented the same way as Note Expression: doubleclicking an audio event opens an editor on top of the audio event similar to the note expression editor. There you could choose which automation parameter you want to edit (similar to note expression bottom left)

if you move, or cut, or stretch, or edit an audio event, the “audio expression” data always is bound to the audio event, moves with it, stretches with it, cut’s with it etc…

Edit MIDI cc AND automation data in the kontext of a container, be it an audio event, an audio part, or even a midi note, or a at least an “automation event” box on automation tracks… To be able to easily bind musical events to other musical events, like Note Expression allows now.

I totally see your point, but this is an enormously complex topic. Expressions would only make sense if they really represent the given characteristics of an audio event. How should the algorithm decide whether a note is played pianissimo or just turned down in volume? And how should it vary these characteristics. Automate pianissimo to tripple forte? This is not just pushing the levels. Of course you can say ‘just bind it to the level’, but then there is no advantage over the classic way of automating things. And again: All automation data can be bind to any clip, you can push it around, copy it, drag it to where you need it.

Best regards


expression is just a word. Don’t confuse “Expression Map” with “Note Expression”

With “Note Expression”, you simply bind any MIDI CC data to a MIDI note.

With a similar scheme “Audio Expression”, you would simply bind any VST Automation Parameter data to an audio event.

I simply call it “Audio Expression”, because the handling scheme would be the same as with Note Expression.

This is possible in Nuendo 5 and it is called Clip Package.

Best regards


erm, no, clip packages is something completely different.

However, I found a perfect working solution for me to automate each an every automatable VST parameter by MIDI cc and now use Note Expression MIDI cc for automation. Apart from the value resolution (float versus 7Bit int MIDI) it’s exactly what I wanted. So I’m happy now, and quiet :wink:

“move MIDI CC data with notes”.

Where is this feature?