2 years for developers to update. Cubase 12 will still support vst2. Don’t see the issue.
Well said, man.
Yeah, I don’t know, that sounds like an excuse to me.
Look, I am a victim of “getting things moving forward”.
I was working with Windows 7 which I absolutely loved, and due to some greedy practices, Windows 7 became obsolete and ASUS stopped supporting Windows 10 for my motherboard!!!
Trash my very expensive computer and fork out another £2600 for a new one.
It’s not as simple as to say, “oh well, it’s just the way it is”.
There are ways to keep people happy with existing technology, but I fear greed has a lot to do with making old software and hardware obsolete. Cubase for one is never perfect, never…think about that…
Wrappers aren’t useful for loading old projects. A general makeshift solution if anything. I’m not willing to use something like that. The DAW itself has to be responsible for backwards compatibility, not a wrapper.
Too cumbersome/expensive and no solution for old project files. Just saying…
This is a workflow concern more than a software concern. Like any professional producer knows, if you require to ability to open a project far down the line, you render critical vsti and fx etc as tracks.
And you can always open your old version of cubase if you need to open an old project.
My guess is that VST 4 is on the way, which would mean that Steinberg will still support two generations just not VST 2. The SDK is at 3.7.4 already and it’s very plausible 4 could arrive within a 24 month time frame. Midi 2.0 is taking shape. There’s the new Steinberg remote control API (see the invite to developers note in Dorico 4 Version doc, the VST 3 SDK forum, and probably the Cubase 12 release). Plus Microsoft are apparently working on a new multiclient Midi driver/API. And the CPUs keep improving. Enough for a version jump?
I am not questioning the upgrades. Of course, things have to move forward.
IDK, it seems people don’t care losing their hard earned cash.
Each to their own I suppose…
You don’t loose anything - When you buy a smart TV, and in 5 years it is not smart anymore. Slow and old. Do we complain? No we don’t. But somehow people believe software should live forever. Not even close. Use your old TV, use your old OS, use your old software. Nothing stops you - You don’t loose money. It still works.
Why do you lose money? You can use your VST 2 Plugins in your current setup as long as you like. Do you also feel that you lose money, because Steinberg is not supporting Windows 3.1 any more?
Native Instruments are already moving their plugins to VST3. This has been on the cards for years now. The manufacturers should have worked on VST3 themselves, this is not all on Steinberg. Also, it makes sense financially to focus the development on one plugin format, instead of spreading themselves thin across other versions. Apple have moved to Apple Silicon as well, which has posed issued for any developers.
Unfortunately I don’t think you even know what that word means if you are using it in terms of plugin formats. Many developers and companies will discontinue something to focus efforts and R&D and on other developments. Somewhat overreacting…
I have lost thousand of pounds because of upgrades across the board. Maybe not an issue for you, but it is to me…
As I said, each to their own.
Surely the developers who haven’t started the move to VST3 yet should be getting the attention?
I understand it will be a pain to do, but it’s not like there hasn’t been years and years of advance notice, along with another 2 years upcoming grace period.
If Steinberg were announcing the cessation of VST2 next week, I’d be upset too, but they’re not. Developers are being given (and have been given) a very long time to address the issue.
If in 2 years, certain plugins no longer work, that won’t be Steinberg fault.
But there’s also a clear issue with NI and VST3, because the Komplete Kontrol wrapper is stuck on VST2.4, yet you can load VST3 within the wrapper.
Now, why would they incorporate such a design and not also make the Komplete Kontrol plugin VST3 compatible? That suggests to me it’s not a simple move, particularly as KK involves a lot of MIDI processing which transports in and out of the plugin.
So I’m being fully clear here, what that means is that NI are taking VST3 plugins and processing them through a VST2.4 wrapper to provide hardware integration and patch management. And there has to be a reason why.
Seems a common issue with developers where MIDI processing is concerned, the move to VST3 is evidently not straight forward.
I keep saying it too, but it’s not just important that VST3 plugins are created for such important plugins (Hardware, libraries and people’s projects spanning multiple years rely on KK), but it’s equally important that the VST3 version is picked up correctly once VST2 is switched off.
Now, is Cubase/Nuendo enough of a concern for NI to put all that extra leg work in? Ableton is - we’ve seen it. There’s absolutely no indication of when or if Komplete Kontrol is moving to VST3 that i’ve seen.
That makes me very nervous, and as mentioned on this forum SB could be shooting themselves in the foot by being responsible for the only DAW that once had VST2, but has since removed it from their applications.
In this instance I’d say that NI are definetly at blame, but I can’t say with absolute confidence as have very little comprehension on how viable it is to transform Maschine/Komplete Kontrol level of integration and MIDI processing into a VST3 version AND maintain compatbility.
No you haven’t lost money at all. You had all the necessary information available before you bought what you bought. It said what the compatibility was and I can pretty much guarantee you that it said nothing about compatibility 2+ years in the future. Like, literally nothing.
In addition to that you’ve now had your old software for years and years, and over that time you have been using it. That’s by definition getting your money’s worth. Not only that but if you make a living off of this you haven’t just used the products but also made money off of them. In that case even the most liberal definition of “lost thousand of pounds” is just wildly incorrect. I’m assuming of course that over the many years you had these plugins you made at least “thousand of pounds”.
I see zero reason for thinking that Steinberg should reimburse you for your investments that you’ve already benefited from for years when those investments went to 3rd party vendors. If Steinberg had said back in 200X that “VST2 is here to stay forever and ever” and you only used Cubase plugins then maybe you had a point.
As a reality check you really should look into the history of music, television and film audio creation. Look at what it took to create a piece of music and have it distributed to the masses. Apart from all the talent you’d need a recording studio, mics preamps and outboard gear, a control room, a mix console, 24 track tape deck, a 2 track deck for the mix, a mastering studio with outboard, a vinyl cutting plant, a repro plant, a physical distribution network, stores to buy the records… You know how much all of that cost?
Whatever it is you spent on your DAW it’s going to pale in comparison to the cost of putting out just one good album back in the day. The convenience you have today, the capacity at your fingertips, it’s just miles beyond what used to be possible at a fraction of the cost. Like it’s not even close. Freezing your computer or rendering your old stuff out as printed audio, updating your plugins, using a wrapper… all of that is “nothing” relatively speaking…
The sense of entitlement these days is fairly astounding.
Erm, All these things are still functional and used to this day, what is the comparison here?
All of the above are still used to this day other than maybe the 24 track and the two track tape.
Even Vinyl cutting, which is now back in fashion, and so these equipment are still used to this day.
I know a fair amount of studio managers. Not one EVER told me that they had to trash their equipment due to incompatibility,
And guess what, these guys made thousands of pounds out of these equipment, but no one EVER said, “ah well, I had a good run, let’s TRASH the desk, mikes, preamps etc…”
RME Card: Trashed because RME Couldn’t be bothered to update drivers.
2.5 K computer, I chose to work on windows 7, guess what, Microsoft chose to withdraw support for W7, and ASUS decided to NEVER create a driver for Windows 10 for my motherboard, thus my PC was no good anymore, TRASHED. had to fork out another £2600.
Steinberg is now choosing to phase out VST2 plugins. Some of them will be trashed.
If you don’t see the issue here, I don’t know what to say. Steinberg are also offering NO solution to this. Just an announcement to which people can’t even answer to…
THEY chose to phase out these plugins without any help to their customers. I have come across people really annoyed about this, as they love some of their VST2 plugins and they will now not be able to use them for one or another reason. And using unsupported Cubase versions is not the answer either.
Yeah, you’re right. Steinberg should pay you money…
“Steinberg’s host applications and plug-ins across macOS and Windows will offer VST 3 compatibility only.”
What the hell they mean by “and plug-ins” and “compatibility”. I use Halion in a non-Steinberg DAW. I sincerely hope that they are not considering bricking Halion through soft e-licenser in 24 month, for use in non Steinberg DAWs and other non Steinberg programs… Do they?