Was Nuendo Ten Premature?

I’ve already said all there is to say about the transparency and will not comment more on that, but the Verifile is a system intended to make sure that an audio stream is completely bit-perfect from the coding down to the output. Every single sample gets its own check-code, and the very same up to single 192000’th part of a second the decoder gets wind of it, it will begin to monitor it. If an unprocessed file recorded through Prism-converters with the Verifile-coder active is played in a DAW and the Verifile decoder doesn’t react to it, then it is not bit transparent.

I’m totally laughing over here and not at anybody just at the internet in general. I’m not mad about anything and everyone deserves a right to their own opinion. Even if it’s wrong :slight_smile:.

But what blows my mind is I did not realize the Steinberg Forum actually came with a Time-Machine option! Somehow, this forum has rolled time back 20 years and I have to say it’s kind of fun.

And now, to pretend to get back on topic, I like Nuendo 10. I think it’s real good.

lol…

And yes, I think Nuendo 10 looks great!

That’s usually how these things go.

I understand that. But you keep missing what the point of that system is and what errors you would get if you tried to use it on an actual mix.

Normally you would dither the output at some point and that dither will mess with Verifile. So you can’t use it assuming you’re actually processing.

The errors it’s made to detect are typically ones that don’t create the sound you’re talking about.

The fact that you’re not rethinking this just shows that nothing will change your mind, and that’s exactly why I brought up confirmation bias. If you were open minded and actually cared about technology and what the actual truth was then your response wouldn’t have been to double-down on what Verifile does.

Just think about it.

PS: I actually don’t care what anyone thinks about it and how anyone deals with it in terms of gear, but I do care about what (dis)information people spread in different forums.

As a service audio engineer working and measuring during years on digital audio hardware and previously on analog hardware, analog tape recorders settings and analog mixing desks controls and repairs, discussing with quite many people in this field from end users to senior engineers at some well known manufacturers and recording studios, reading quite a lot of forum discussions, sometimes more or less strange, i think that i have a good understanding of digital audio from the lowest levels (my thesis was talking about quality of the digital audio to analog conversion process), processing, and how things are differently perceived by audio technicians, audio engineers and musicians or people with less technical background.

I remember a few discussions with some high fidelity enthusiasts, where it was absolutely not possible to discard them from some of their non sense mythological beliefs.

This is quite funny to see that those people with “diamond ears”, sometimes, do not even ear that one of their speaker driver is dead :smiley:, or that there is a very big acoustical standing waves problem in their listening room. :laughing:

Interestingly, those “audio religious” peoples are less presents inside recording studio or broadcast facilities, probably because here there is a higher technological background available, and because here money need to be spent for a good reason.

My conclusion is that :

It is not necessary to trig some hard conflicts with peoples that do not talk the same language, believe in mythological things, or do not have enough technical background to exchange at this level. After all audio is for music too, and music is mostly creativity and less technics.

It seems that those people for a reason or another needs to believe in their myths. Something that is a myth for us scientists is sometimes not a myth for them, and for sure that does help them to be happy with their work or even with their existence.

It is not fair to destroy their beliefs, because after all they need it. The same apply for religions.

I did stop a long time ago to fight against them, i’m finally happy for them if they do find some answers through something that could be named “happy myths” by us scientists and technicians.

But i do not hesitate to explain them why i think they are wrong in their beliefs, if they are interested in listening to me.

In the other hand, they are generally fair enough to not destruct the serious work that has been done by scientists about the technology they are using.

If they spread some strange or really corrupt information, specially trying to influence or destroy the market for a specific product, then it is another story.

Thank you for your responses!
I am a music person, who hopes to grow into post-production eventually.

I work shoot videos with the ‘phone and compose music to it in Pro Tools at the moment, and when I heard about Nuendo’s post-pro applications, I bought it. When I did my first such project in Nuendo, and discovered the export process, I was sorely disappointed, hence my current stand.

While I have only “touched”, not “scratched” the surface of Nuendo’s post-pro capabilities, the video export functionality is THE deal-breaker, for me. I’m probably being (too) harsh, but that’s where I am now.

De nada, glad to be of help!
It sounds like you are a very creative person who certainly seems to have the ear for it, and I can very much recommend trying this trade out! You have one hell of a ride to look forward to if you do, and I mean that in the good way! I haven’t looked back for a second since abandoning the music industry completely in favour of movies and games 15 years ago, and for my own personal projects and experiments in music Nuendo still rocks :slight_smile:
I have a sneaking suspicion you might find quite a few things really worthwhile right off the bat in Nuendo 10, I sure did, but I hear what you’re saying about the video rendering function. It is very simple right now, but I must admit this brings me a lot of hope and anticipation for what’s coming!I’ve been using Nuendo since version 2, and there has been several features added during these years that initially started out pretty sparsely featured, but grown into really amazing stuff. The video-engine is a great example- it actually did give me a few headaches as my old Matrox-stuff didn’t work anymore when the Direct Show-support disappeared, and just good riddance to the Quicktime engine full stop, but what I gained from the new engine introduced in…7? Something like that. -More than made up for that. And truth be told quickly nothing of all this was a problem anymore when I bought Black Magic-cards instead for the play-out anyway, and that card has remained with me since Nuendo 5.
I feel the same way here and now: there are no settings whatsoever, and I’m not a huge fan of H.264, but the promises this hints of about the future will save me a downright monumental amount of time, and even now in this primitive state I can easily send WIP to my clients with a simple press of a button!
Not really sure what it might be that you dislike about the export otherwise, but maybe it’s something that just takes a little getting used to?

It the whole idea of having to leave Nuendo to do something that I am used to doing totally inside another DAW.

(Mental block?)

As I grow into post-pro, and learn and appreciate the more advanced processes that Nuendo supports, I may be able to overlook it.

I’m guessing they’re working on extending video export support, and it sure would be nice to have.

Davinci Resolve though does a great job at exporting, and it support batch exports by loading them into a list of renders to execute. It’s obviously more clunky but on the bright side you then have access to pretty much all formats, resolutions, bit rates etc. Yes, it’ll take more time to line stuff up but once you get the hang of that you can go through it relatively quickly.

I agree though that video exports should improve.



I’ll be here … :wink:

Davinci Resolve though does a great job at exporting, and it support batch exports by loading them into a list of renders to execute.

Wonderful application, if only it would stop crashing. I don’t know if it’s my computer, or what, but Resolve requires lots of resolve to get past the crashes.

… you then have access to pretty much all formats, resolutions, bit rates etc.

Yes.

Solid A- for pun.

I’ve had zero stability issues.

THanx! :laughing:

[quoteI’ve had zero stability issues.
[/quote]
I’ll give it another go (again). :wink:

I just released my debut album working almost entirely within Nuendo 10.

I cross graded from Cubase, so I think I know that, almost everything is on par with Cubase. Well, I am saying ‘almost’ because there are still few things that are, in my opinion, much better in Cubase. For example, Cubase can remember VCA destination in a template while Nuendo still can’t.

Otherwise, the video export functionality is awesome for small videos like music videos, short films and television commercials etc. But for large videos, like films, Nuendo can make the exported file size very very large.

But I suppose Nuendo is coming soon with more codecs.

Regarding DaVinci Resolve, we’ve actually had huge problems with it when working on a series of promos this summer. It refused to export in stereo, and everything was way too high, even beyond what a simple merging of two channels would normally result in. And the nulling was all over the place. Can’t remember exactly what it sounded like anymore other than distorting to hell, but the director I was working with ditched Resolve altogether and muxxed in After Effects instead.
That program has a great possible future, but it’s not there yet regretfully. At least not for us here.

I am sorry to know that. It works for me perfectly here. Were you using beta versions?

People use Resolve professionally for commercial project in which audio is a part. I seriously doubt the problems you (van Caine) encountered were due to the software. It must have been an awfully random bug, an immature version, or more likely some mistake done by someone operating the software.

Yeah, it seems pretty random, at least at the time (early summer), how well it works for different people. The colour-correction generally seems pretty rock solid, but the video-editor and sound-part was pretty fritzy what I heard. Myself I haven’t really dug into it yet though, this was an issue for the editor of a project we filmed last spring and posted this summer.

Of course it was a bug. And yes, a lot of people use it for commercial applications, and so will probably I eventually as I’m pretty pissed about how Adobe handle things, and Avid is simply too expensive as I only cut video occasionally, but of all the non-linear editors I know in the business I can’t say a single one using it for video editing, only colour correction and some video effects. Actually, every single one (that has this for a living) that I asked if it could make for a decent replacement for Premiere advised strongly against it. And i know one less who would consider using it for muxxing anytime soon again.
Black Magic did however release a stable version this August. Dunnu how it is though, only have the spring version right now and am in no rush to upgrade right now.

Nuendo 10 is not premature - it is UNUSABLE!