Was Nuendo Ten Premature?

Also working on a feature here, working quite well. I try to avoid DOP for anything heavy though. I’m still using my old workflow for RX.

While I certainly want continued development/improvement towards workflow and more long-promised improvements to the video engine, for example (10.2 was a good step in the right direction BTW), N10 is definitely usable for feature work with tons of sound design. I’d use this over PT any day.

Let’s be honest. You have a good, personal relationship with Steinberg. Like people like Hans Zimmer, they listen to you, and fix stuff that affects you.

The rest of us get straight up ignored.

I actually had a Steinberg rep reach out to me when I posted about my N issues on a professional game audio email list. I told them I had been ignored when I raised the issues here and they went quiet.

I’m still mad when I think back about the time I got banned from this forum for a week for pointing out the bugs subforum was completely ignored by steinberg staff, and had mods on here making snarky comments implying I didn’t actually work in the games industry, despite me having been working in it for near 10 years at that point.

Yes! You are 100% right. Nobody cares in steinberg. Nobody tries to figure out what is wrong. Nobody tries to rollback changes that ruined the way we worked.
When I buy programs from small independent companies (for example jBridge or AATranslator) I get answers within a couple of hours. And not even answers, but fixes and even personal test versions.
Here we can get only total silence.
So if I get silence - I assume that somebody is dead. Maybe it is steinberg?

It’s true that Steinberg has made many mistakes, and has some customer service and communication problems like many larger developers in this crowded DAW field, and I’ve been really angry with them at times… so I understand frustration. But when I read posts that say “nobody cares, nobody tries to figure out what is wrong…” I just think it is way off. Steinberg is made up of people just like you and they have lives and families and want to keep their jobs and make a good product like you do. And if they didn’t care or didn’t listen, why would they release the following fixes and features over the last several months? Maybe none of these fixes/features help you, and I wish they were smarter about releasing new features before thorough testing was completed, etc., but below are plenty of things many of us have been complaining about or asking for. And are you telling me there’s NOTHING in there that you have been needing/requesting? They’re clearly doing something and not just listening to Fredo and Hans Zimmer:

http://download.steinberg.net/downloads_software/Nuendo_10/10.2.10/Nuendo_10.2.10_Version_History.pdf

CAN-24154 Direct Offline Processing Fixed a possible crash when applying REVerence as a Direct Offline Process.
CAN-24848 Direct Offline Processing Improved compatibility for Antares Autotune Graph Mode when applied as a Direct Offline Process.
CAN-24861 Export Project folder no longer gets changed unintentionally when exporting AAF files.
CAN-24780 MediaBay Previewing Clip Packages in the MediaBay now works as expected.
CAN-24804 MixConsole Linked Panners are now restored correctly when loading a project.
CAN-24898 MixConsole Downmixing from immersive sound formats to stereo now includes the top speakers correctly.
CAN-21879 Plug-ins The sound quality for VoiceDesigner when used at high sample rates has been improved.
CAN-23108 Plug-ins The sound quality for Distroyer when used with Oversampling option active has been improved.

Video Export (finally! Although it still needs a lot more features!)

CAN-23046 ARA Corrected playback behaviour when using ARA processes on multiple lanes for comping.
CAN-22875 ARA Improved responsiveness when using Melodyne via ARA on long events.
CAN-23179 ARA Playback now works correctly using ARA Extensions with Processing Precision set to 64it float.
CAN-24013 ARA Fixed a playback issue when using ARA Extensions on audio events with 96 kHz sample rate.
CAN-23405 Audio Connections Audio Connections I/O Presets now update correctly when switching to another audio hardware.
CAN-23086 Audio Export Imported MP3 audio files now appear with the correct length in the project.
CAN-22747 Control Room Master Meter settings’ strings are now translated correctly.
CAN-23399 Device Panels MIDI Device Panels of Instrument Tracks now restore correctly when loading projects.
CAN-15065 Direct Offline Processing DOP now retains parameter values correctly when reapplying plug-ins with Learn function.
CAN-22392 Drum Editor Drum Maps of VSTInstruments are now saved correctly with the project file.
CAN-24124 Export When exporting selected events, the paths are now updated correctly.
CAN-24602 Fades Fixed an stability issue when using Auto Fade in Equal Power mode.
CAN-23973 Field Recorder Field Recorder Audio Import no longer deletes audio files after performing an undo operation.
CAN-23716 Field Recorder Field Recorder Audio Import user interface now resizes correctly.
CAN-23133 Freeze File Save confirmation dialog now prompts correctly when closing a project after having used the Freeze function.
CAN-22256 General Non-latin characters are now displayed correctly.
CAN-24011 Markers CSV Marker Import user interface now resizes correctly.
CAN-23188 Markers The width of the attribute column in the CSV Marker Import panel has been corrected.
CAN-19882 MediaBay Fix for potential application freeze when browsing MIDI Loops in MediaBay.
CAN-23675 Metronome Fixed an issue where additional outputs could not be selected in the Metronome Setup window.
CAN-20076 MixConsole MixConsole Visibility Agents now display their active status correctly.
CAN-22745 MixConsole Copy / Paste of Instrument Track Channel Settings no longer modifies VST Instrument selection.
CAN-22652 MixConsole Channel Overview now shows the correct amount of channels after using Set Channel Filter for Channel Visibility.
CAN-23260 Note Expression Fixed a stability issue when working with Note Expressions.
CAN-23021 Note Expression Fixed a stability issue when editing Note Expression data.
CAN-23531 Plug-in The value range of Auto LFO MIDI plug-in is now restored correctly when loading projects.
CAN-22899 Plug-in VST MultiPanner Front/Rear Automation lane is no longer inversed after toggling Bed and Object mode.
CAN-22663 Plug-in Fixed a stability issue when using vintage Cubase plugins in a project.
CAN-22699 Plug-in Brickwall Limiter threshold parameter now shows a correct scale.
CAN-22845 Pool Pool Search mode user interface corrected.
CAN-18564 Project Window Track numbering corrected when adding tracks.
CAN-21951 Recording Direct Monitoring input metering corrected.
CAN-23727 Recording Record-enabling MIDI tracks no longer sends “All Notes Off”.
CAN-22733 Sample Editor Fixed a stability issue when “Create MIDI Notes” from Hitpoints was triggered twice.
CAN-12327 Sampler Track Sampler Track now accepts improper audio files from Pro Tools.
CAN-23192 Sampler Track Key Editor toolbar Edit Sampler Control icon is now displayed correctly.
CAN-23738 Score Editor Score Editor handling corrected for Multi-Rests.
CAN-22599 Score Editor Corrected chord symbols in MusicXML export.
CAN-23350 Track Presets Extract Sound from Track Preset now works correctly for MIDI insert plug-ins.
CAN-21956 Transport Editing Locator Range Duration values now works correctly.
CAN-22548 Transport Editing Pre/Post-Roll and Punch In/Out values now work correctly.
CAN-23878 VST Instruments Instrument track name is now displayed correctly when using Japanese characters.
CAN-22943 VST Instruments Resizing HALion’s user interface now works correctly for mixed resolution multi-display setups.
CAN-22387 VariAudio Fixed an issue when using formant shifting on first VariAudio note segment produced distorted audio.
CAN-18817 Video Improved reliability of Full Screen video playback.
CAN-22697 Video Cut Detection Corrected behaviour of Video Cut Detection when applied to invalid selections.
CAN-22977 Video Cut Detection Fixed a stability issue when using Video Cut Detection.

ARA2 support
Cue sheet export
Split channels
Audio Alignment improvements

etc., etc., etc., etc…

I see, you’re into snarky comments - maybe you are just one those lucky guys who can stand the default color scheme. I can’t. Yes, I can change it - it’s just that NU10 forgets these settings, and new Preferences can’t get saved. The visual appearance is significant, in my book - otherwise we would still work with ASCII-based command line sequencers (been there, done that - thanks for asking).

Another un-adressed graphical issue is the way the appearance of folder tracks is recalled: There is the option to hide the folder tracks’ contents once its opened. A clever feature which reduces screen clutter considerably. Thing is: Nuendo simply forgets this setting when recalling a project, which leads to small, but increasing irritation. And the list goes on.

… yes, I use NU10 for real-world work, but I don’t dig the application any more. The smell of carelessness … :stuck_out_tongue:

It’s bug fixes! But they make some significant changes without asking - and a lot of people dislikes this, and they doesnt’t care about them.
Nuendo look doesn’t significantly changed since version 2. And now we get this in N10.
Undo function is terrible. Auto-save is still terrible. I work on huge projects and I know what is 30 seconds autosave. etc etc
And by the way - every final version they made was left off with a lot off bugs, that would be never fixed.

Hi Yonah,
I’m a new user to Nuendo (have worked with cubase 5 loooong ago). I’m not certain I agree with the sentiment of this threads title.
Any software will be released prematurely, simply because it will never be perfect. If you say you work on huge projects, you’ll probably agree that things can always be better. Just a little tweak here and there… but budgets/time/other projects demanding attention etc etc.
Now look at N10. The feature set, the stability (I have worked extensively with PT in the last 10 years and believe me when I say I’ve seen instability), rock solid video playback (I’m in post). I’ve been having so much workflow upgrades since stepping into Nuendo land, I can’t really believe there’s actual complaints about it.
But I get it, you are used to how things used to work for you and now they’ve changed without asking. What do you expect? You really think Steinberg is in the position to ask every user for advice and a wishlist? Let’s be a bit more humble that we have excellent software for a fair price (compared to at least PT) and FREE (again not with PT) bug fixes (I ran into the reverence bug and now it’s fix, yes!).

Unless someone has smoking gun proof that this release was premature, let’s just focus on reporting bugs, expressing wished features and report what we are missing from older versions, instead of having this all gathered in one huge thread… it’s simply a waste of time.
But more importantly it takes away attention from well argumented wishes, bug reports and other important discussions.

To round it of: I think your grievances are real and Steinberg should fix things as best as they can, I’m just hoping we can do it in a deliberate and focused manner.

Cheers!

I came here to see what has happened in Nuendo land.
Have never used N10 tbh.
But it IS interesting to read that post guys cry out while music guys don‘t.
It is also interesting to read that RX still does not work.
It is even more interesting that basic stuff like autosave or undo causes problems.

So, 10=8 in Hambug, in a way.

Just observing…, everybody seems to see his or her part of the truth.

Oliver, the people here who say Nuendo is workable for them are post guys doing some pretty large projects.

dear Oliver,

//Just observing…, everybody seems to see his or her part of the truth.//
Yes and you are not an exception it seems.

I’m practically saying that N10 is a fine product. and I am Post Production sound designer.
Yes RX needs fixing, but if you read the actual posts on what is going wrong, you’'ll notice that’s not a bug, it’s inherent to having an offline process outside of Nuendo…

It’s not just bug fixes, re-read the list – some big ticket items that people have been requesting for a long time are in there. And yes, bugfixes happen to be GOOD too, remember? And people ask for bugfixes, right? There are several bugfixes in there plus great features that I asked for, and I’m not Fredo or Hans Zimmer.

As for Steinberg making certain changes that disrupt prior workflow, YES, I think we all agree that they have done this from time to time in the past and they have been strongly criticized by people about it – I was not happy with DOP’s launch for example. The DOP feature taking over for prior workflow was very frustrating. But how long are you going to beat the dead horse on that? I think they learned from that lesson and haven’t made that same level mistake again. DOP was introduced 2+ years ago! Give it a rest by now. Let’s focus on bugfixing for it now and making it work well with our critical plugins. YES, they rushed DOP and should have been more careful. YES they make mistakes, but every single large developer makes that kind of mistake, and they are also trying to innovate, so occasionally they take a risk and it backfires. They have been releasing patches for two years now on DOP and YES, many of us agree that they should have left the OLD workflow in there at the same time as introducing DOP. They messed up. Got it. I agree. They got the message. They’ve been trying to fix it, it works much better now, and they haven’t made that level of mistake in two years, life has to go on.

As for some other comparatively minor workflow issues they’ve messed up on recently, each one of those was in the spirit of innovation, and they do need to be more cautious about introducing those kinds of changes while maintaining past workflow whenever possible. However, that’s a far cry from “Steinberg never listens, Steinberg doesn’t care.”

My main point is that they’ve also released many other features and bugfixes that many, many people have been asking for – not just Fredo and Hans Zimmer. They are indeed LISTENING, even though they are far from perfect. Steinberg is made up of people like you and me who DO care and listen, but they obviously have more to do to make you happy. But please, for the love of Odin, Zeus, the Giant Space Unicorn and the all DAW gods, can people here please stop using all these “absolute” statements about how “no one at Steinberg cares, no one listens, no one uses Nuendo for post, Nuendo is totally broken, Nuendo is useless.” Good grief! I thought there were supposed to be more pros here in this forum who knew how the world works, and any pro knows how software dev from big developers like Steinberg goes, and there is NOTHING perfect out there – go visit Avid and remember how awful it is – Steinberg is Disneyland compared to some of Avid’s issues… the bottom line is that Nuendo is excellent, innovative, powerful, mature, post production software that many pros are using on feature films, major releases, minor releases and everything in between, and really nothing else on the market covers what Nuendo can do in one box. Is it perfect? No, of course not. It definitely has flaws, and Steinberg needs to remember the lesson of DOP and improve their communication skills too, but you’re NOT going to be listened to seriously by anyone if your constant mantra is “nothing works, no one cares, no one listens.”

So I’ve said my peace on it, and I honestly know better than to engage in threads like this. But it really bugs me when I see language like this in an ostensibly pro forum where the noise to fact ratio is so out of balance, it’s no wonder that Steinberg doesn’t take time to comment on every thread.

hear hear

just finished 11 movies and two series for Disney, besides the odd issue I think SB ( Nuendo) is the tool for us.

That’s good to hear. I just switched from Pro Tools, and after reading this thread, I was beginning to think I made a mistake. That said, I’m loving N10. Since I’m new, I don’t have holdovers from previous versions. All I have is my PT experience, and with that, I’m glad I switched.

tg

This is not the message. If you would have read carefully you would have seen that complaints also come from people who work with Nuendo on a professional level since 15, in my case even 20 years. We always thought that this software was the most advanced and most complete DAW of all, but some of us are afraid to see this status melting away in a somewhat seasonable mediocrity.

If you can live with that - fine. There are others who care and who would like to change it for the better.

I work in Nuendo since 1.5. I’ve soldered a wire to connect it to Betacam SP. Now somebody teach me what is right and what is wrong and that the bug is the feature. I can’t work in N10. It’s dead end.

Spot on.
I have left Nuendo after using it from v3.
Things don‘t get better because you repeat a mantra.

DOP is still horribly broken, has been horribly broken for 2+ years and any efforts Steinberg has made towards fixing it has been woefully inadequate.

They still don’t even publicly acknowledge its even a problem, and it’s this attitude that is the worst element of their corporate behaviour of all.

“DOP”? To me that means Director Of Photography, why do I have a sneaking suspicion it just got a second meaning here?

I just misread your name as “von Carne”.

Time for lunch…