Try adjusting these Layout Options:
They might be a little silly in Page View, but it’s only a few clicks to put them back when you’ve done all the initial tidy up and are working in Page View.
3 Likes
“Swing and a hit” for @pianoleo, natch!
Ideal Gap in Galley View = 100%
Staff to staff group: 18 spaces (to accommodate 4 verses)
Braced staff to braced staff: 6 spaces
1 Like
Not entirely! You must (I hope) have had the experience of trying a piece of software and finding it very intuitive - with options where you expected them to be and relatively little need to consult the manual or help files. Conversely (and, sadly, more commonly in my experience), you must have encountered software that does not work the way your mind does and requires you to repeatedly consult Help, even for relatively common operations.
[quote=“judddanby, post:417, topic:929784, full:false”]
But remember, Galley View isn’t “real” in the sense of how your music will look in print. It’s just a handy working environment. [/quote]
Understood, but this means it should be optimized as a working environment.
1 Like
Unfortunately, as I implied above, 90% of the music I am working with has at least two choral staves, grouped together, so both the voices and the accompaniment staves are braced.
Yes, of course. But then I’ve asked myself: “how was my brain ‘programmed’ to work that way in the first place.” The answer is usually: “oh, yeah, from other software.”
Obviously there would be “stupider” and more counterintuitive ways of designing software (like “up” arrows — which on my keyboard actually face horizontally away from me rather than up — moving selected items down on the screen). But bigger ideas like “how would I globally control the relative distances between staves relative to how they’re beamed?” is pretty high-level, artificial, learned behavior.
(BTW, I almost tucked this away inside a Hide Details tab, but then I realized that it’s actually an important general aspect of getting adjusted from Finale.)
4 Likes
I think learning a brand new software is a bit like being thrust into a foreign country having to learn an all new language (much like what it must feel like for our Finale friends here). The words and grammar in this new land will probably sound quite odd and “unintuitive” when compared to your own native tongue that you’ve been using your whole life; but that, I believe in part, is due to conditioning – what you’re used to. I still can’t totally grapple with why many languages put their adjectives after nouns (sounds crazy to my ears!) but, of course, I understand that there is no right or wrong here. Just different. It would be pretty much pointless to learn French but try to force it to act, sound, and conjugate like English – because that’s what I’m used to! 
4 Likes
It’s actually much worse than that! I have been (a bit rusty, now!) fluent in two European languages other than my native English, and I can read at least a couple of others, with some effort and a dictionary. Most (at least) European languages share the same basic concepts. There are verbs, nouns, adjectives, adverbs, etc. There are major differences in vocabulary and syntax, but if you have any grasp of basic language structure at all, you can deal with the vagaries (at least) of a new written language with the aid of a fair amount of time and effort and a good translation dictionary. Spoken language involves more levels of difficulty, of course. Transitioning from Finale to Dorico requires applying a whole new concept structure to the work you are trying to accomplish - it is like trying to learn a language where familiar words have new meanings and the syntax doesn’t correspond to that of any other one that you know.
1 Like
So, if you like, perhaps it is more akin to learning a language with no reference point to your native language: Russian, Greek, Mandarin Chinese?
That said I think Dorico is closer to your “Native Finale Tongue” than you might realize! But nonetheless it requires a bit of re-thinking and re-orientation of not trying to force what you’re used to, to get a hang of the grammar before you can speak “fluent Dorico” haha. Before long you’ll be flying.
2 Likes
Hi Peter – And welcome to Dorico from me too. A few replies to your points:
Dorico does import MusicXML, and since you’re used to the quirks of that process with Finale, you may find Dorico actually works better.
As you know by now, scroll view is called “galley view” in Dorico. The main differences are that galley view does not do collision avoidance and the staff spacing is fixed by a preference setting. So if you want to work with multiple verses in galley view you’ll want to set {Layout Options > Vertical Spacing > Ideal Gaps > In galley view, expand ideal staff gaps to:} a large value, like 150% or 200%, to accommodate the lyrics. I myself prefer page view for this, for the automatic collision avoidance.
These you’ll want to add with staff text, turn off collision avoidance, and position manually in Engrave mode.
1 Like
TBH I think you are overstating the challenge. And the impression of difficulty will be made worse by the task you using to try and learn Dorico, since importing XML can introduce problems that baffle even moderately skilled Dorico users. This is a consequence of XML import and export.
I would urge you take one of the projects you would scan, and simply transcribe it directly into Dorico. This will enable you to learn the basics of the Dorico language and workflow.
2 Likes
I understand what you are saying, but what that would primarily do is teach me how to transcribe music into Dorico. It would also be extremely onerous and time-consuming for much of the material that I am concerned with, and probably of little value if I deliberately chose something trivial. I have increasingly little doubt that Dorico is an excellent way of transferring music from mind to paper - almost certainly better than Finale. The workflow of what I actually need to do is sufficiently different - focused on editing existing music and lyrics - that I think that I am better off learning by doing that, if I can.
I respect your choice. I would just point to the hundreds of recommendations from experienced users to new users that they take the time to complete the (trivial?) Dorico First Steps exercise. I urge you to do likewise.
Clearly you value you time greater than mine, but our efforts are sincerely to make you more productive, quicker.
5 Likes
The other approach would be to create a special layout called Galley or something, and change the page width to something absurd like 8000mm, and you’ll get something that looks like Galley but has all the spacing benefits of Page View
The “live chat” feature on the DORICO website site ignores user input. They cut me off, indicating that they would not relay my complaint, and referred me here.
However, this seems to be just a users forum, so what guarantee is there that DORICO will ever hear of our issues while we impotently vent here? What does THAT accomplish except to get us out of DORICO’s hair?
Anyway, the problem:
I do MIDI keyboard entry exclusively. DORICO’s method of entering chords is inefficient. One has to stop single-note entry, click the “chord button”, enter the chord ONE NOTE AT A TIME (?!), and then switch back to single-note entry–a clumsy interruption of the work flow. This even applies to something as simple as two-note “chords”! DORICO seems to be oriented towards musicians who have no piano skills, whereas a great many of us are pianists. Why support MIDI keyboard input if one can only enter single notes? This is basic to DORICO’s note-entry method, so I doubt this will ever change. I’m staying with FINALE, “defunct” though it may be.
I refuse to believe I’m the only user to have raised this issue. If I’m mistaken about the chord-entry feature of DORICO, I’ll be grateful to be shown where I’m wrong.
Dace Gisclard, The Woodlands, TEXAS
The chord button is for qwerty entry.
Try to play a chord on your midikeyboard and you will see that it works. You can even extend the caret over multiple staves to enter four part harmony to those staves in one go.
2 Likes
LAE-Thanks for the answer. I’ll try your idea. Why couldn’t DORICO’s online tutorial have covered this point? It would have allayed my fears.
Hey Peter, welcome. You should hook up with Dan Kreider, he is a very prolific Dorico user and puts out hymn books for church service. He’s a great guy.
LAE–Just tried it–you’re right–it does work. I just wish DORICO’s online tutorial had been more specific. Thanks again.
But another question, does DORICO actually read these posts, or is does it just leave us to ourselves?
1 Like
The developers are very present, so you will find lots of threads where they are participating. They read everything.
4 Likes
@double8range ,
As strange as it may seem, the chat person you talked to (although perhaps brusque) was doing you a greater favor than you could imagine. This forum is one of the most responsive anywhere. Whether you are dealing with experienced users or the majority of the Development Team itself, this forum represents just about the best support anywhere.
Glad you found out about chord entry with your MIDI keyboard.
2 Likes